Three Powerful Books

[_honorentheos]

I'll look at it in more detail when I have some time but I have to say if your source introduces the subject with this,



...you may be overstating the necessity to account for this theory in ones worldview.

I also still doubt you have a comprehensive and coherent system of belief that you've built on these ideas you've shared. You seem be intuiting that an idea aligns with your belief in God and accepting it in concept but not really engaging with it beyond a feel good level. If you answer the question "what does information mean to you in this context?" with a link and a challenge, I think I'm on solid ground in assuming you couldn't actually answer the question yourself.

I think about LDS thought proclaiming that the glory of God is intelligence or another words light and truth. That does seem to fit in with a theory of everything connected/associated with the idea of information being the basis of all things. The ground of all being having to do with light, truth, and information at its most elementary level is an interesting and appealing concept/possibility to mull over.

At least for those that are open to the notion of a creator God.

Regards,
MG

Yikes. Your God is a god of word salad.

[_mentalgymnast]

I think about LDS thought proclaiming that the glory of God is intelligence or another words light and truth. That does seem to fit in with a theory of everything connected/associated with the idea of information being the basis of all things. The ground of all being having to do with light, truth, and information at its most elementary level is an interesting and appealing concept/possibility to mull over.

At least for those that are open to the notion of a creator God.

Regards,
MG

Yikes. Your God is a god of word salad.

Salad is a side dish. There is more to the complete meal.

Yep, I was going a bit generalist with a twist of wishful/hopeful thinking.

With the caveat that I think there may be some good science to add a dash of seasoning to the meal as a whole.

Physics Guy would be the ‘cook in the kitchen’ who can verify whether the gist of what I’ve posted in it’s total context on the last page or two of this thread dealing with information/consciousness has any merit.

Regards,
MG

[_honorentheos]

This reminds me of a joke by the comedian Tom Segura about his cousin who thinks he is an inventer...

https://youtu.be/pT6Dqc5OVJU

Note: NSFW due to language. But highly relevant to this discussion due to the gist of ideas in context of everything posted in the last few pages with a twist of wishful thinking.

[_Lemmie]

This reminds me of a joke by the comedian Tom Segura about his cousin who thinks he is an inventer...

https://youtu.be/pT6Dqc5OVJU

Note: NSFW due to language. But highly relevant to this discussion due to the gist of ideas in context of everything posted in the last few pages with a twist of wishful thinking.

Lol. We are ALL related to cousin Bryan. Definitely.

[_mentalgymnast]

This reminds me of a joke by the comedian Tom Segura about his cousin who thinks he is an inventer...

https://youtu.be/pT6Dqc5OVJU

Note: NSFW due to language. But highly relevant to this discussion due to the gist of ideas in context of everything posted in the last few pages with a twist of wishful thinking.

Funny guy.

Looks like we’re sending out links and doing the psychoanalysis thing with a holier than thou twist, huh?

Check this out:

https://youtu.be/uEj7Hwy5gow

Sending grace your way. Giving you some space to express your feelings of insecurity. Is this the natural response that comes without God guiding you on your path? Arrogant chap.

Best wishes with your reading up on information/consciousness. Kinda heavy stuff. Considering the possible ramifications.

Are we ready for another YouTube video now to amplify your need to feel superior?

1 Nephi 9
28 ​O that cunning ​​​plan​ of the evil one! O the ​​​vainness​, and the frailties, and the ​​​foolishness​ of men! When they are ​​​learned​ they think they are ​​​wise​, and they ​​​hearken not​ unto the ​​​counsel​ of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their ​​​wisdom​ is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.
​​​29 ​But to be ​​​learned​ is good if they ​​​hearken​ unto the ​​​counsels​ of God.

Remember that one?

Silly secularist. Puffed up in your pride.

Peace,
MG

[_honorentheos]

I listened to the entire lecture by Polkinghorne in your link.

To keep it simple, I'm interested in how you, MG and not a link, would describe the difference between having a materialist view of the universe and a mechanistic one? Maybe that will help if you would explain your views on that as you, yourself hold them. Because you used one term in ways P. didn't.

[_mentalgymnast]

I listened to the entire lecture by Polkinghorne in your link.

To keep it simple, I'm interested in how you, MG and not a link, would describe the difference between having a materialist view of the universe and a mechanistic one? Maybe that will help if you would explain your views on that as you, yourself hold them. Because you used one term in ways P. didn't.

If I’m not mistaken and speaking in layman’s terms, because that’s me, a mechanistic view correlates with Newtonian physics and the laws that govern the universe at the macro or observed level. The materialistic view entertains looking at things through a quantum lens knowing that the ‘normal’ laws of physics don’t seem to apply. Micro level. The universe becomes less predictable and matter acts in what almost appears to be a magical fashion. That until observation occurs, outcomes or reality are more or less ‘fuzzy’. Observation creates reality, or at least perceived/observed reality. But until observation occurs by a sentient observer, reality is up for grabs.

To my understanding information theory suggests that reality can be further stripped down to the bare nubbins by going from quanta to even smaller bits of information. Ones and zeroes. Every aspect of a particle can be expressed as information. Thus, information is at the root level of reality. How the observation component fits in here, I have no idea.

My argument, again speaking as a lay person, is that information when organized gradually morphs into consciousness. But that organization occurs from outside of the system. That’s where I would bring superior consciousness/
mind into the picture.

God.

Divine intelligence and supreme organizer of intelligence/information. (sound familiar from your church going days?)

I've been playing in this sandbox for a couple of days now. I need to return to the regularly scheduled program...life...again. It’s been fun. I’ll look to see if there is any other post that I believe demands a response, but if not, sayanora till the next dance.

Others may want to go out on the dance floor at this point.

Regards,
MG

[_Morley]

I don't understand this stuff, so, you know, ahem, God.

Goodbye.

[_Physics Guy]

Physics has always been perfectly compatible with theism. The distinction between an actively intervening God, and a Deist God who sets everything in motion and then just stands back to watch it all unfold under strict causality, is moot. Strict causality means that everything that ever happens is implicit in the initial conditions, and so whoever sets the initial conditions determines everything that ever happens afterwards.

Quantum mechanics does not represent a change from some bad, old, overly rigid concept of determinism to some loose, vague, spiritual New Age view. Quantum mechanics is in a major sense much stricter and stronger in its determinism than classical mechanics. It's extremely rigid and mechanical, not vague and fuzzy at all, and it allows no special role for mind or spirit. The special status of observation in quantum mechanics is for machines like Geiger counters and photomultipliers, not consciousness, and anyway quantum measurement theory is a cludgy jury-rigged part of the theory that is still in place after a hundred-odd years just because physics is hard.

Quantum mechanics is strange, but not mystically Oooh-aahh Gee-whiz strange. It's bizarrely and nonsensically strange, like an alien children's game. It's compatible with theism, too, but less comfortably so than classical mechanics is. The God who made a world that runs on quantum mechanics must be quite a different kind of being from us. So it makes no sense for theist apologists to appeal to quantum mechanics in particular, as if it tips the playing field in their favor. We and everything we think of as real might still be ideas in the mind of God, but if so quantum mechanics implies that God's is an alien mind.

Saying that everything boils down to information isn't really an idea because it's a tautology. Many different states of the universe are in principle possible as far as we know. The actual state of the universe is one of them in particular. Specifying one possibility out of many is what is called "information" in communication theory. So Yay, we can now use a new word for what we've known all along. That's all it is. Wheeler was a good theoretical physicist but an even better marketer, so some of his banal observations got attention. None have really gone anywhere so far.

[_mentalgymnast]

I don't understand this stuff, so, you know, ahem, God.

Goodbye.

To the extent that I do understand the world and it’s workings and the beauty, purpose, and opportunities for sentient beings to make important choices and thus learn and grow, I see God.

Are there things I don’t understand?

In some realms/categories of knowledge I would belt out a loud and emphatic “Yes!”

Not sure why a belief in God is being ridiculed, Morely. Some of the greatest minds have and do believe in God. Why would you poke fun at a lesser mind for being a believer?

Enough time responding to you.

Regards
MG