Huge Win for Biden Today

[Gadianton]

For the record, I do not believe that populism is in itself a form of extremism. It is usually anti-elitism, but it can exist across the left-center-right political spectrum. Can there be populist extremists? Yes. Are all populists extremists? No.

I don't think populism is "extremist", because that word indicates "extreme measures" in talk or actions intended to deal with the establishment. I do think populism takes criticism of the establishment to the extreme; the establishment must be seen as largely a failure. Is there any American who hasn't been furious with some aspect of government, whether its taxes, or drug laws, or cops putting up speed traps? Back in the day, I'd hear relatives rail on the government but end it off with, "it's still the best system we've got" or "the best country in the world". Whether that is true, I don't know, but that was the sentiment.

[honorentheos]

Cas Mudde and Cristóbal Rovira Kaltwasser make the case that populism is inherent lacking as an ideology, describing it as "thin centered" and an application to other "thick centered" ideologies. Lacking ideological texts and portrayed so variably by journalists and media, it's function is to establish a binary political view where the pure common people are juxtaposed with the corrupt elite. Most often, it expresses itself within liberal democracies. And as such this expression takes the form of a radicalized overturning of liberal democracy espoused as a more pure and truly democratic form compared to what liberal democracy can offer.

Yet at the scale of the nation state, oppression by majority is the most likely cause for upheaval against liberal democratic values and norms.

I don't see someone assuming the populist label in any light but that of radicalization as it's entire aim is that of radicalized reform based on antagonism towards the current state of being. And that state being one of liberal western democracies. One does not see populism under authoritarian regimes where the people are least independent. One does not voice disgust against corrupt elites except in societies where that voice is allowed to speak in the first place.

Inevitably when a populist is able to pivot off of the oppositional nature of their populist agenda and attempt to frame their argument based on an aim to be achieved beyond the overthrown of the corrupted elite one finds oneself not seeing another aspect of populism but rather an entirely different and better formed ideology.

[canpakes]

This is a practical analysis. It’s like the example of a claimed populist aim given upstream of ‘wage and wealth parity’. Yet, the lack of doing the hard work to define how to achieve the desired parity (or even defining what that means) reveals that this populist aim is just a masking of anger against what the populist perceives others have, and/or how s/he is disadvantaged.

Past the rage and grievance, then what?

So, if people work toward parity, if they work for application of fair wages, if they sacrifice time and money to work toward equality for themselves and their co-workers or employees - and do not succeed - are they terrorists and anti-establishment rioters?

Depends on how they ‘work’ for it. Do they raid the Capitol building in a populist rage? Or use other methods?

Nobody owes you the hard work to define something, you lazy POS. Your petulant "reveal" here is about you, not anybody else.

No worries; I didn’t ask you, anyway. Regardless, you still need to do that work. That, or just play the rage actor, I guess.

I will be back on the picket lines if I am asked, and I will advocate for fair wages and benefits.

Advocate … OK. Cool, I guess. ; )

[Marcus]

I will be back on the picket lines if I am asked, and I will advocate for fair wages and benefits.

Advocate … OK. Cool, I guess. ; )

Yea, that advocating is some serious work. meanwhile, in my town, I serve on a couple boards where we make stuff happen, including fair waged and benefits. Culty should stop by for an internship or something. He could learn a thing or two.

[canpakes]

honor, come on man. I am the one-legged man in an asskicking contest here. You have your entire cabal here fighting. You have to do do better than this.

Indeed, you are Monty Python’s Black Knight in this conversation, and just as effective.

[honorentheos]

I'd also point out that one of the concepts of populism, expressed by cultellus, is the idea if one opposes populism one is advocating for elitism which feeds the binary view of populism.

But I think the true opposite of populism (and elitism) is pluralism. And pluralism inherently requires western liberal democracy to overcome tribalism and elitism that oppress the increase of the values of liberal democracy.

"The people" is almost never spoken of in populism as referring to all people. Rather it envisions people as being people "like me". I'm the common man and one of a vast mass of others...nore or less like me.

Pluralism envisions "the people" being people both like me and those very much unlike me in many ways. Yet this diversity with a unified access to rights as core value is part of the ideal and purpose of liberal western democracies.

[Cultellus]

Advocate … OK. Cool, I guess. ; )

Yea, that advocating is some serious work. meanwhile, in my town, I serve on a couple boards where we make stuff happen, including fair waged and benefits. Culty should stop by for an internship or something. He could learn a thing or two.

Did you see a word to parse and and jump on? That is so clever of you. And did you make huge conclusions based on that, even some that are wrong? Wow. You are such a big person. We should just turn the board over to this version of you.

Isn't panny such a huge contribution to the dialogue? It is great, right? I bet he will share some pictures soon.

[Cultellus]

I'd also point out that one of the concepts of populism, expressed by cultellus, is the idea if one opposes populism one is advocating for elitism which feeds the binary view of populism.

Liar.

Never said that.

[canpakes]

Isn't panny such a huge contribution to the dialogue? It is great, right? I bet he will share some pictures soon.

Too late! Already posted one. w00t!

I have to consider your ability to stay focused.

[honorentheos]

I'd also point out that one of the concepts of populism, expressed by cultellus, is the idea if one opposes populism one is advocating for elitism which feeds the binary view of populism.

Liar.

Never said that.

Hey man. Just go on hating populism. Learn nothing, know everything, hate everyone, and have a testimony of your one true ideology. That is the most important thing for you so stay true. I do not want to dissuade you from believing that you have it all right and that I have it all wrong. I do not want you to ever think that people who are not aligned with the elite are anything but would-be rioters. I want you to continue to be as rabid about this as you are in this thread - because I think THAT is the most important part of this conversation.

If people can see just what that sort of rabid blind ideology can get us - a choice between Hillary and Trump, for example - perhaps we will make better choices and have better outcomes going forward. If you think that telling people who dislike the system, or who want to fight for the majority and for equal pay for equal work, that they are would-be rioters and socialists, I want you to do that as absolutely loudly as you can.