Guns in America

[Binger]

Thanks. Don't you think that's an odd way to put the issue.

RI: I love my fellow man
DT: Alcohol and coffee cause some people suffering and death.
RI: I love my fellow man, except I have no love for my fellow man when I'm drinking a beer.

Life is complicated and people are complicated. Absolutes belong only in logic class. Well, mostly.

Does leaving a beer out on your coffee table result in a toddler’s violent death? It’s absolutely amazing to me how easily some folks resort to rhetoric because they don’t understand how levying violence either intentionally or through neglect isn’t a god-given right. The data ref gun deaths doesn’t lie. It’s a violence-using-guns issue.

Also, take the misdirection of aUtO dEaThS. If you get into an honest accident it’s unlikely you’ll face heavy consequences. Use the auto irresponsibly, or criminally, and the penalties increase. damned smooth brains …

- Doc

And if we had a stricter law about driving over children in driveways, then that wouldn't be a problem no more.

[Res Ipsa]

Thanks. Don't you think that's an odd way to put the issue.

RI: I love my fellow man
DT: Alcohol and coffee cause some people suffering and death.
RI: I love my fellow man, except I have no love for my fellow man when I'm drinking a beer.

Life is complicated and people are complicated. Absolutes belong only in logic class. Well, mostly.

Does leaving a beer out on your coffee table result in a toddler’s violent death? It’s absolutely amazing to me how easily some folks resort to rhetoric because they don’t understand how levying violence either intentionally or through neglect isn’t a god-given right. The data ref gun deaths doesn’t lie. It’s a violence-using-guns issue.

Also, take the misdirection of aUtO dEaThS. If you get into an honest accident it’s unlikely you’ll face heavy consequences. Use the auto irresponsibly, or criminally, and the penalties increase. damned smooth brains …

- Doc

I don't think the comparison is wholly invalid. If the goal is reducing deaths, then I think it's perfectly sensible to pick the lowest fruit first. I agree that auto deaths is a silly comparison, because we have all kinds of regulations to prevent injury or death produced by autos. Hell, I'd be delighted if we regulated guns the same way we regulated autos.

We tried outlawing alcohol. It resulted in increased crime and violence. To me, that's what's silly about 90% of these facile comparisons -- they fail to account for direct and indirect costs.

The argument is also silly unless the person makes it is serious about the comparison. DT, are you in favor of making coffee illegal?

[doubtingthomas]

Does leaving a beer out on your coffee table result in a toddler’s violent death?

You are ignoring what I am saying.

"Utah has lowest percentage nationally for drunk driving fatalities"
https://www.fox13now.com/2019/12/19/uta ... fatalities

"America’s anti-alcohol experiment cut down on drinking and drinking-related deaths — and it may have reduced crime and violence overall."
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/ ... e-benefits

Don't you think an alcohol ban would decrease drunk driving fatalities?

[doubtingthomas]

Life is complicated and people are complicated. Absolutes belong only in logic class. Well, mostly.

Yes, but drunk drivers kill more innocent people. Mothers Against Drunk Driving would agree.

[canpakes]

Does leaving a beer out on your coffee table result in a toddler’s violent death? It’s absolutely amazing to me how easily some folks resort to rhetoric because they don’t understand how levying violence either intentionally or through neglect isn’t a god-given right. The data ref gun deaths doesn’t lie. It’s a violence-using-guns issue.

Also, take the misdirection of aUtO dEaThS. If you get into an honest accident it’s unlikely you’ll face heavy consequences. Use the auto irresponsibly, or criminally, and the penalties increase. damned smooth brains …

- Doc

And if we had a stricter law about driving over children in driveways, then that wouldn't be a problem no more.

At least children rarely drive over themselves with cars.

[Binger]

And if we had a stricter law about driving over children in driveways, then that wouldn't be a problem no more.

At least children rarely drive over themselves with cars.

Are you mocking people who commit suicide?

[doubtingthomas]

I would only support that in cases with repeat offenders who have taken a life.

How would a drunk driver who injures a person in a traffic accident be much different than someone who committed one violent crime?

But alcohol doesn't cause violent behavior most of the time and it certainly doesn't cause rape.

"approximately one-half of all sexual assault victims report that they were drinking alcohol at the time of the assault"
https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications ... 43-51.htms

And in many cases it is a He Said, She Said situation because alcohol affects memory.

"America’s anti-alcohol experiment cut down on drinking and drinking-related deaths — and it may have reduced crime and violence overall."
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/ ... e-benefits

I started drinking a few years ago and my wife says she actually likes me when I'm drunk.

I sometimes a little bit, but only to socialize. I still think the world would be better off without alcohol and guns. Wouldn't you agree?

[doubtingthomas]

Are you mocking people who commit suicide?

You probably love your guns more. A rational person understand the statistics.

Read
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magaz ... d-suicide/

"Tougher Gun Laws, Fewer Gun Deaths: Study"
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news ... aths-study

[K Graham]

I would only support that in cases with repeat offenders who have taken a life.

How would a drunk driver who injures someone in a traffic accident be much different than someone who committed one violent crime?

I would think intent. Drunk drivers don't intend to get drunk so they can go run someone over. But as I said, repeat offenders are different because they didn't learn from the mistake the first time and can no longer be trusted behind the wheel.

[doubtingthomas]

I would think intent. Drunk drivers don't intend to get drunk so they can go run someone over. But as I said, repeat offenders are different because they didn't learn from the mistake the first time and can no longer be trusted behind the wheel.

When you said, "Violent criminals shouldn't be allowed to ever own a gun again" were you talking about repeat violent offenders?