Guns in America

[Binger]

Does leaving a beer out on your coffee table result in a toddler’s violent death? It’s absolutely amazing to me how easily some folks resort to rhetoric because they don’t understand how levying violence either intentionally or through neglect isn’t a god-given right. The data ref gun deaths doesn’t lie. It’s a violence-using-guns issue.

Also, take the misdirection of aUtO dEaThS. If you get into an honest accident it’s unlikely you’ll face heavy consequences. Use the auto irresponsibly, or criminally, and the penalties increase. damned smooth brains …

- Doc

It's men like you that resort to rhetoric because you're scared of fellow citizens practicing their God given rights. Back when I was growing up we could carry knives into school. I carried a Swiss army knife and I would cut my finger and toenails with the little pair of scissors while sitting at my desk. If a kid did that now they would be charged with a felony!! 10 years before I was in high school, the guys would hunt in the morning then drive to school with their guns hanging in the rear window, leave it there during school. Growing up I was always around guns. No one had gun safes!! We had gun cabinets with glass fronts and no locks. Progressives are trying their hardest to bubble wrap every American so scary danger danger won't attack. And their doing that by making everyone a victim!!

What's changed is society. Liberals have succeeded at scaring the living chit out of a large portion of Americans when it comes to guns. Why?? Because the liberal/Progressive brain despises real freedom. Freedom scares them. It's all about control. They have an overwhelming desire to control everything around them. And because lazy, stupid conservatives have let the insane Progressives take over our school system, we now have a couple of generations of "victims" !! And the victim mentality needs a savior, which in our case the Progressives are making the Savior out to be people in the government. Joe Rogan has a doctor on his show with a differing opinion, the Progressives freak out. Someone on progressive Twitter says something controversial, they get banned. Your obsession with guns is because you've turned into a lover of victimhood! A hater of freedom.

Mike ain't wrong. All this victimization going round is a responsibility shirk. Look at all the people on this forum who are not responsible for guns, gun culture or movies with Alec Baldwin, because they are victims and it is not their fault. How can anything be their fault if they are the victim? And how can anything be their responsibility if they are the victim? If you are not victimized enough, make up a story about a gun in a vise shooting a kid because the kid said "boo." Victims everywhere, none are responsible for anything and nothing is their fault. It is about them, but never because of them. Kind of like every victim story we goddamn hear.

Mike ain't wrong about this victim crap. But, there are a plenty of victims on the other side too. Like the people who can't carry a fully auto carbine and pretend their rights are being threatened. Uh, no. Not being able to trot with a full auto carbine in one hand, a shortened 10 gauge coach and a bandolier into your favorite Piggly Wiggly does not make you a victim.

[Atlanticmike]

Don't Second Amendment activists make a similar argument?

Wouldn't you agree No alcohol = Less intoxicated drivers?

"Utah has lowest percentage nationally for drunk driving fatalities"
https://www.fox13now.com/2019/12/19/uta ... fatalities

I don’t care. A pile of bad arguments don’t magically become a good argument.

Answer some questions, please. If we out law alcohol completely, pull it from stores, it can't be sold online, make it a felony to possess, would vehicle deaths from drunk driving go down?

How bout this one. If we made a countrywide speed limit of 25mph, would that save lives by reducing vehicle fatalities when people get into wrecks? If so, why not lower all speed limits to 25mph if we can save just one child's life? Do we have a constitutional right to go 70 mph?

Blunt objects are used 5% of the time during a homicide. Are baseball bats protected by the Constitution? If not, why not outlaw baseball bats in the home or at least make people lock them up in a safe? Is the life of someone who's been bludgeoned to death with a bat less important than a life snuffed out with a bullet??

There's thousands of things we can do to save lives! Why are PROGRESSIVES so obsessed with guns? It's not about saving lives. It's about squashing freedom. Face it!! Liberals/Progressives hate real freedom just as much as Mormons hate wearing store bought underwear!!

[K Graham]

Tell that to the college women who get raped by drunk college men.

You obviously haven't met any real rape victims if you think they'd blame it on alcohol.

Because alcohol causes violent behavior all the time.

No it doesn't. You're basing your ignorant perspective on what you see on television.

I've had or have so many friends over the years that don't have a relationship with one of their parents because of how alcohol changed their personality and the friend didn't want their child exposed to that side of the grandparent.

No, alcohol doesn't change personalities. Alcohol really is no excuse for bad behaviour—research reveals you're still the same person after a drink

It turns out that while we might believe that alcohol changes our personalities, it doesn't. You're still the same person after a drink—your existing sense of morality left intact. So while alcohol might affect how we interpret and understand the emotions of other people, we can't blame our immoral behaviours on alcohol. Drunken you has the same moral compass. And so you are responsible for your moral and immoral actions, whether you've had a few drinks or not.

Alcohol is just the excuse we make up because we don't want to believe our loved ones would be "themselves" when they're harming us.

From Domesticshelters.org: Why We Can't Blame Abuse on Alcohol

Put bluntly, says Larry Bennett, PhD, licensed social worker and professor at the Indiana University School of Social Work, “A batterer who quits drinking is a sober batterer” ...Bennett says he’s heard similar accounts from many survivors he’s talked to for his research: “Yeah, he’s fine when he’s drinking beer, when he switches to Jack, that’s when I’m getting hurt.” For a lot of abusers, drinking gives them a sense of entitlement to do what they do, he adds, and it’s an excuse both abusers and some of their victims want to believe... Bennett says alcoholism doesn’t cause domestic violence any more than poverty, depression or trauma history does, but like those factors, alcohol almost always makes existing abuse worse. “Abusers carry with them their aggressiveness, sense of entitlement and hostility. Unless you address those things, their behavior isn’t going to change when sober.”

Alcohol more than any other substance is probably responsible for people ending up in jail.

If that were true then none of them would be convicted of crimes because they "weren't themselves." They'd go free as if they were deemed insane and unable to control their actions.

I don't know about other professions, but in construction, alcohol absolutely ruins careers, makes people poor because of bad decisions and if you talk to a guy that's in his sixties and still swinging a hammer, 9 times out of ten the reason will be alcohol.

Becoming poor because you're at home drinking instead of working doesn't translate to alcoholism = violence. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Alcohol ruined his life and he'll never retire because he's squandered his life drinking.

Just listen to yourself. Posturing with this "party of the great generation and self-responsibility." What utter hypocrisy. You use alcohol as a crutch to excuse bad behavior and think that's something we're all supposed to agree with because you saw a few sitcoms.

But for some reason you're worried about guns, constitutionally protected weapons.

Guns are designed to kill people. Alcohol isn't. But as I told DT, I'm fully supportive of legislation that would take a DL away from known drunk drivers. But the fact is 5,000 children die every year due to gun related accidents and another 25,000 die from suicides. Fewer than a thousand children under the age of 17 die from alcohol related incidents. But for some reason you're not focused on guns, except to repeat the moronic creed that it is a "God given right." You're pretending to care about alcohol abuse only because you think it gives you a convenient "whataboutism" to detract from the plethora of data you persistently ignore.

[K Graham]

Mike ain't wrong. All this victimization going round is a responsibility shirk.

Yes he is wrong. Mike is the same guy blaming alchol for criminal behavior. Responsibility shirk indeed.

Look at all the people on this forum who are not responsible for guns, gun culture or movies with Alec Baldwin, because they are victims and it is not their fault.

Who are all the people on this forum "not responsible for guns"?

How can anything be their fault if they are the victim?

Yes, like being a victim of alcoholism. It's a disease you know. It changes your personality and makes you do bad things, haven't you heard?

If you are not victimized enough, make up a story about a gun in a vise shooting a kid because the kid said "boo."

Were you lying when you said [possible real-life information deleted]!

Victims everywhere, none are responsible for anything and nothing is their fault.

Except no one has said this except Mike. You're making crap up as you go while becoming more unhinged in your rants.

[Binger]

Tell that to the college women who get raped by drunk college men.

You obviously haven't met any real rape victims if you think they'd blame it on alcohol.

Because alcohol causes violent behavior all the time.

No it doesn't. You're basing your ignorant perspective on what you see on television.

I've had or have so many friends over the years that don't have a relationship with one of their parents because of how alcohol changed their personality and the friend didn't want their child exposed to that side of the grandparent.

No, alcohol doesn't change personalities. Alcohol really is no excuse for bad behaviour—research reveals you're still the same person after a drink

It turns out that while we might believe that alcohol changes our personalities, it doesn't. You're still the same person after a drink—your existing sense of morality left intact. So while alcohol might affect how we interpret and understand the emotions of other people, we can't blame our immoral behaviours on alcohol. Drunken you has the same moral compass. And so you are responsible for your moral and immoral actions, whether you've had a few drinks or not.

Alcohol is just the excuse we make up because we don't want to believe our loved ones would be "themselves" when they're harming us.

From Domesticshelters.org: Why We Can't Blame Abuse on Alcohol

Put bluntly, says Larry Bennett, PhD, licensed social worker and professor at the Indiana University School of Social Work, “A batterer who quits drinking is a sober batterer” ...Bennett says he’s heard similar accounts from many survivors he’s talked to for his research: “Yeah, he’s fine when he’s drinking beer, when he switches to Jack, that’s when I’m getting hurt.” For a lot of abusers, drinking gives them a sense of entitlement to do what they do, he adds, and it’s an excuse both abusers and some of their victims want to believe... Bennett says alcoholism doesn’t cause domestic violence any more than poverty, depression or trauma history does, but like those factors, alcohol almost always makes existing abuse worse. “Abusers carry with them their aggressiveness, sense of entitlement and hostility. Unless you address those things, their behavior isn’t going to change when sober.”

Alcohol more than any other substance is probably responsible for people ending up in jail.

If that were true then none of them would be convicted of crimes because they "weren't themselves." They'd go free as if they were deemed insane and unable to control their actions.

I don't know about other professions, but in construction, alcohol absolutely ruins careers, makes people poor because of bad decisions and if you talk to a guy that's in his sixties and still swinging a hammer, 9 times out of ten the reason will be alcohol.

Becoming poor because you're at home drinking instead of working doesn't translate to alcoholism = violence. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Alcohol ruined his life and he'll never retire because he's squandered his life drinking.

Just listen to yourself. Posturing with this "party of the great generation and self-responsibility." What utter hypocrisy. You use alcohol as a crutch to excuse bad behavior and think that's something we're all supposed to agree with because you saw a few sitcoms.

But for some reason you're worried about guns, constitutionally protected weapons.

Guns are designed to kill people. Alcohol isn't. But as I told DT, I'm fully supportive of legislation that would take a DL away from known drunk drivers. But the fact is 5,000 children die every year due to gun related accidents and another 25,000 die from suicides. Fewer than a thousand children under the age of 17 die from alcohol related incidents. But for some reason you're not focused on guns, except to repeat the moronic creed that it is a "God given right." You're pretending to care about alcohol abuse only because you think it gives you a convenient "whataboutism" to detract from the plethora of data you persistently ignore.

Holy, damned, crap.

[K Graham]

It's men like you that resort to rhetoric because you're scared of fellow citizens practicing their God given rights.

You don't have any God given rights.

Back when I was growing up we could carry knives into school. I carried a Swiss army knife and I would cut my finger and toenails with the little pair of scissors while sitting at my desk. If a kid did that now they would be charged with a felony!!

This is a lie. A kid might get suspended or expelled but I just googled several examples of this and none were charged with a felony. But are your kids such poor victims now because they weren't born in an era that would let them bring knives to school?

10 years before I was in high school, the guys would hunt in the morning then drive to school with their guns hanging in the rear window, leave it there during school

They sound like idiots, but it seems you're referring to the early 80's movie Red Dawn. I went to a private school in Alabama and most all the other guys in my class were hunters, but they were also rednecks who dipped tobacco in class. There were only 25 kids in my sophomore class, about half of them males. They were always talking about how so and so shot an "8 pointer" with their "Thirty-Aught-Six," and at the time their favorite song was Hank WIlliam's Jr.'s "A country Boy can survive." But none of them were dumb enough to go hunting BEFORE heading off to school. Most of them lived 30 minutes away out in the country. One kid's family owned 2,000+ acres while most others were only small lots with only a few acres. So yeah, I'm familiar with that culture to a degree as I grew up in that milieu.

Growing up I was always around guns. No one had gun safes!!

So now you're mocking safety measures as some kind of Liberal weakness? God this is pathetic. Were you one of those rednecks who yapped about how he wasn't going to wear a seat belt because... "freedom"? See anyone you notice in this 1984 news clip of pissed off drivers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glmcMeTVIIQ

We had gun cabinets with glass fronts and no locks.

So are you bragging or apologizing?

Progressives are trying their hardest to bubble wrap every American so scary danger danger won't attack. And their doing that by making everyone a victim!!

That's rich coming from the guy who blames quite literally EVERYTHING bad in his life on Progressives. The guy who spent yesterday blaming crimes on alcohol instead of bad people.

What's changed is society.

Thank God for that. I know you think the 70's-80's were the glory days, but that's only true for ignorant racists who remember the days when they could do a KKK rally uninterrupted. But frankly I'm glad my kids aren't growing up in that armpit of America's timeline. I'm glad they're not exposed to schools that prevent black kids from enrolling (as mine did). "Freedom" was the excuse for people to drive recklessly, it was the excuse to blow second hand smoke in our faces, it was and still is the excuse they use to ensure we're nation that will kill 5,000 children each year because.... "freedom."

Liberals have succeeded at scaring the living chit out of a large portion of Americans when it comes to guns.

Not true. We merely tell the truth about the threat a society of guns presents, and you haven't even begun to acknowledge or deal with the statistical data provided you. All you do is keep reverting back to these unhinged rants that assert all kinds of falsehoods you want to believe because it makes you feel important.

It's all about control. They have an overwhelming desire to control everything around them.

Says the guy who wants the government to force 52% of the population to undergo an invasive and life-threatening surgical procedure if they get pregnant. Says the guy who wants his religious views to be what dictates legislation in a country where the population is becoming increasingly irreligious.

Freedom scares them.

Scared! Says the guy who can't go to the quick stop for a gallon of milk without bringing his assault rifle with him.

Also wrong about Rogan. He had several doctors with multiple appearances over the course of the pandemic who appear on his show disproportionately more than any doctors who would debunk their claims. And it isn't "PROGRESSIVES!!" that are freaking out, unless you just automatically think COVID is a political wedge and only people on the left would be against propagating dangerous disinformation.

[Atlanticmike]

Tell that to the college women who get raped by drunk college men.

You obviously haven't met any real rape victims if you think they'd blame it on alcohol.

Because alcohol causes violent behavior all the time.

No it doesn't. You're basing your ignorant perspective on what you see on television.

I've had or have so many friends over the years that don't have a relationship with one of their parents because of how alcohol changed their personality and the friend didn't want their child exposed to that side of the grandparent.

No, alcohol doesn't change personalities. Alcohol really is no excuse for bad behaviour—research reveals you're still the same person after a drink

It turns out that while we might believe that alcohol changes our personalities, it doesn't. You're still the same person after a drink—your existing sense of morality left intact. So while alcohol might affect how we interpret and understand the emotions of other people, we can't blame our immoral behaviours on alcohol. Drunken you has the same moral compass. And so you are responsible for your moral and immoral actions, whether you've had a few drinks or not.

Alcohol is just the excuse we make up because we don't want to believe our loved ones would be "themselves" when they're harming us.

From Domesticshelters.org: Why We Can't Blame Abuse on Alcohol

Put bluntly, says Larry Bennett, PhD, licensed social worker and professor at the Indiana University School of Social Work, “A batterer who quits drinking is a sober batterer” ...Bennett says he’s heard similar accounts from many survivors he’s talked to for his research: “Yeah, he’s fine when he’s drinking beer, when he switches to Jack, that’s when I’m getting hurt.” For a lot of abusers, drinking gives them a sense of entitlement to do what they do, he adds, and it’s an excuse both abusers and some of their victims want to believe... Bennett says alcoholism doesn’t cause domestic violence any more than poverty, depression or trauma history does, but like those factors, alcohol almost always makes existing abuse worse. “Abusers carry with them their aggressiveness, sense of entitlement and hostility. Unless you address those things, their behavior isn’t going to change when sober.”

Alcohol more than any other substance is probably responsible for people ending up in jail.

If that were true then none of them would be convicted of crimes because they "weren't themselves." They'd go free as if they were deemed insane and unable to control their actions.

I don't know about other professions, but in construction, alcohol absolutely ruins careers, makes people poor because of bad decisions and if you talk to a guy that's in his sixties and still swinging a hammer, 9 times out of ten the reason will be alcohol.

Becoming poor because you're at home drinking instead of working doesn't translate to alcoholism = violence. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Alcohol ruined his life and he'll never retire because he's squandered his life drinking.

Just listen to yourself. Posturing with this "party of the great generation and self-responsibility." What utter hypocrisy. You use alcohol as a crutch to excuse bad behavior and think that's something we're all supposed to agree with because you saw a few sitcoms.

But for some reason you're worried about guns, constitutionally protected weapons.

Guns are designed to kill people. Alcohol isn't. But as I told DT, I'm fully supportive of legislation that would take a DL away from known drunk drivers. But the fact is 5,000 children die every year due to gun related accidents and another 25,000 die from suicides. Fewer than a thousand children under the age of 17 die from alcohol related incidents. But for some reason you're not focused on guns, except to repeat the moronic creed that it is a "God given right." You're pretending to care about alcohol abuse only because you think it gives you a convenient "whataboutism" to detract from the plethora of data you persistently ignore.

Were you one of those sheltered Mormons that was never around drunk people, EVER! First, let me say, I don't want alcohol to be outlawed, ever. But I think we should warn our youth how dangerous it is. I've dealt with so many drunks it's not even funny. I hire guys all the time that need to be picked up to go to work because they can't drive from having their licensed revoked from driving drunk. You're an idiot if you don't think alcohol brings out the worst in some people, SOME PEOPLE, not all, there's definitely nice/funny inebriated people. But having hundreds of conversations with guys just getting out of jail, 80% of them, if they could, would've loved not drinking when they were young. Alcohol ruined there lives, their marriage, their children's lives and if you don't know that happens, well, you're more sheltered than I thought.

I deal with alcoholics on a daily basis. I've also bought more beer/liquor than any Mormon you'll ever meet. I don't drink, I've never consumed alcohol first because of the WOW, then because of my life long dealings with alcoholics. We switched payroll from Fridays to Wednesdays because when we payed the guys on Friday, they ended up spending all their money over the weekend on booze and half of them wouldn't show up on Monday because they were hung over. I've hired guys fresh out of jail that killed someone while driving drunk.

I still can't believe you're so ignorant you don't realize alcohol can change someone's personality for the worst. Just be grateful you're a happy inebriated person.

[Marcus]

Tell that to the college women who get raped by drunk college men.

You obviously haven't met any real rape victims if you think they'd blame it on alcohol.

Because alcohol causes violent behavior all the time.

No it doesn't. You're basing your ignorant perspective on what you see on television.

I've had or have so many friends over the years that don't have a relationship with one of their parents because of how alcohol changed their personality and the friend didn't want their child exposed to that side of the grandparent.

No, alcohol doesn't change personalities. Alcohol really is no excuse for bad behaviour—research reveals you're still the same person after a drink

It turns out that while we might believe that alcohol changes our personalities, it doesn't. You're still the same person after a drink—your existing sense of morality left intact. So while alcohol might affect how we interpret and understand the emotions of other people, we can't blame our immoral behaviours on alcohol. Drunken you has the same moral compass. And so you are responsible for your moral and immoral actions, whether you've had a few drinks or not.

Alcohol is just the excuse we make up because we don't want to believe our loved ones would be "themselves" when they're harming us.

From Domesticshelters.org: Why We Can't Blame Abuse on Alcohol

Put bluntly, says Larry Bennett, PhD, licensed social worker and professor at the Indiana University School of Social Work, “A batterer who quits drinking is a sober batterer” ...Bennett says he’s heard similar accounts from many survivors he’s talked to for his research: “Yeah, he’s fine when he’s drinking beer, when he switches to Jack, that’s when I’m getting hurt.” For a lot of abusers, drinking gives them a sense of entitlement to do what they do, he adds, and it’s an excuse both abusers and some of their victims want to believe... Bennett says alcoholism doesn’t cause domestic violence any more than poverty, depression or trauma history does, but like those factors, alcohol almost always makes existing abuse worse. “Abusers carry with them their aggressiveness, sense of entitlement and hostility. Unless you address those things, their behavior isn’t going to change when sober.”

Alcohol more than any other substance is probably responsible for people ending up in jail.

If that were true then none of them would be convicted of crimes because they "weren't themselves." They'd go free as if they were deemed insane and unable to control their actions.

I don't know about other professions, but in construction, alcohol absolutely ruins careers, makes people poor because of bad decisions and if you talk to a guy that's in his sixties and still swinging a hammer, 9 times out of ten the reason will be alcohol.

Becoming poor because you're at home drinking instead of working doesn't translate to alcoholism = violence. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Alcohol ruined his life and he'll never retire because he's squandered his life drinking.

Just listen to yourself. Posturing with this "party of the great generation and self-responsibility." What utter hypocrisy. You use alcohol as a crutch to excuse bad behavior and think that's something we're all supposed to agree with because you saw a few sitcoms.

But for some reason you're worried about guns, constitutionally protected weapons.

Guns are designed to kill people. Alcohol isn't. But as I told DT, I'm fully supportive of legislation that would take a DL away from known drunk drivers. But the fact is 5,000 children die every year due to gun related accidents and another 25,000 die from suicides. Fewer than a thousand children under the age of 17 die from alcohol related incidents. But for some reason you're not focused on guns, except to repeat the moronic creed that it is a "God given right." You're pretending to care about alcohol abuse only because you think it gives you a convenient "whataboutism" to detract from the plethora of data you persistently ignore.

Great post, Kevin. it's irritating to constantly have to wade past the contrarian trolling, so thanks for putting the effort into a solid rebuttal.

[Atlanticmike]

It's men like you that resort to rhetoric because you're scared of fellow citizens practicing their God given rights.

You don't have any God given rights.

Back when I was growing up we could carry knives into school. I carried a Swiss army knife and I would cut my finger and toenails with the little pair of scissors while sitting at my desk. If a kid did that now they would be charged with a felony!!

This is a lie. A kid might get suspended or expelled but I just googled several examples of this and none were charged with a felony. But are your kids such poor victims now because they weren't born in an era that would let them bring knives to school?

10 years before I was in high school, the guys would hunt in the morning then drive to school with their guns hanging in the rear window, leave it there during school

They sound like idiots, but it seems you're referring to the early 80's movie Red Dawn. I went to a private school in Alabama and most all the other guys in my class were hunters, but they were also rednecks who dipped tobacco in class. There were only 25 kids in my sophomore class, about half of them males. They were always talking about how so and so shot an "8 pointer" with their "Thirty-Aught-Six," and at the time their favorite song was Hank WIlliam's Jr.'s "A country Boy can survive." But none of them were dumb enough to go hunting BEFORE heading off to school. Most of them lived 30 minutes away out in the country. One kid's family owned 2,000+ acres while most others were only small lots with only a few acres. So yeah, I'm familiar with that culture to a degree as I grew up in that milieu.

Growing up I was always around guns. No one had gun safes!!

So now you're mocking safety measures as some kind of Liberal weakness? God this is pathetic. Were you one of those rednecks who yapped about how he wasn't going to wear a seat belt because... "freedom"? See anyone you notice in this 1984 news clip of pissed off drivers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glmcMeTVIIQ

We had gun cabinets with glass fronts and no locks.

So are you bragging or apologizing?

Progressives are trying their hardest to bubble wrap every American so scary danger danger won't attack. And their doing that by making everyone a victim!!

That's rich coming from the guy who blames quite literally EVERYTHING bad in his life on Progressives. The guy who spent yesterday blaming crimes on alcohol instead of bad people.

What's changed is society.

Thank God for that. I know you think the 70's-80's were the glory days, but that's only true for ignorant racists who remember the days when they could do a KKK rally uninterrupted. But frankly I'm glad my kids aren't growing up in that armpit of America's timeline. I'm glad they're not exposed to schools that prevent black kids from enrolling (as mine did). "Freedom" was the excuse for people to drive recklessly, it was the excuse to blow second hand smoke in our faces, it was and still is the excuse they use to ensure we're nation that will kill 5,000 children each year because.... "freedom."

Liberals have succeeded at scaring the living chit out of a large portion of Americans when it comes to guns.

Not true. We merely tell the truth about the threat a society of guns presents, and you haven't even begun to acknowledge or deal with the statistical data provided you. All you do is keep reverting back to these unhinged rants that assert all kinds of falsehoods you want to believe because it makes you feel important.

It's all about control. They have an overwhelming desire to control everything around them.

Says the guy who wants the government to force 52% of the population to undergo an invasive and life-threatening surgical procedure if they get pregnant. Says the guy who wants his religious views to be what dictates legislation in a country where the population is becoming increasingly irreligious.

Freedom scares them.

Scared! Says the guy who can't go to the quick stop for a gallon of milk without bringing his assault rifle with him.

Also wrong about Rogan. He had several doctors with multiple appearances over the course of the pandemic who appear on his show disproportionately more than any doctors who would debunk their claims. And it isn't "PROGRESSIVES!!" that are freaking out, unless you just automatically think COVID is a political wedge and only people on the left would be against propagating dangerous disinformation.

Rachel Maddow, is that you!!!!! You hit all the Progressive talking points. . Guns were never a "problem" until culture started to decline. I can't remember who but a few pages back on this thread, someone said once they had kids, they put a trigger lock on their gun, put it in a safe, then locked it in a closet. Holy crap!!! That explains the Progressive scaredy cat everything in life is going to hurt or kill me so I need to be a victim so people feel sorry for me attitude. You guys are the biggest sissies I've ever come across. Even people like Bill Maher , a classic liberal, is growing tired if your BS!! You guys would be happy if everyone was walking around in suits made out of bubble wrap and wearing 3 mask. I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're in a cult!! You'll never understand, kinda like you didn't understand Mormonism when you were a Mormon!

One of the main reasons to disarm America is because your cult, the Progressive cult, wants a great reset of America. An armed populist makes that goal a lot harder for you guys to complete.

[K Graham]

Were you one of those sheltered Mormons that was never around drunk people, EVER!

I didn't join Mormonism until I was 19. My Dad was and is an alcoholic. Always has been. Half the time when I try calling him, I can count on him being completely hammered. His family in Florida says he always complains that none of his kids call him, but the problem isn't that we don't call, the problem is he's too drunk to remember. Despite living most of his life completely inebriated he's never once been violent towards us or anyone else in his family.

First, let me say, I don't want alcohol to be outlawed, ever.

Neither do I, so why are you beating about something no one has supported?

But I think we should warn our youth how dangerous it is.

I know how dangerous it is. The number of drunk driving related deaths alone is enough to make that point.

You're an idiot if you don't think alcohol brings out the worst in some people, SOME PEOPLE, not all, there's definitely nice/funny inebriated people.

So now you're shifting your ground. You initially said it "causes violence," and that it does so "all of the time," and that it "changes the personality." Scientific studies suggest this is just myth. Someone who is violent while drunk is just a violent person in general. It is easy for you to assume he wouldn't be violent if he were sober, but you'll never know if that's true or not. A person makes the conscious choice to consume alcohol, and they use it as an excuse for bad behavior. It doesn't alter one's sense of morality or understanding of right and wrong.

But having hundreds of conversations with guys just getting out of jail, 80% of them, if they could, would've loved not drinking when they were young. Alcohol ruined there lives, their marriage, their children's lives and if you don't know that happens, well, you're more sheltered than I thought.

Sure alcohol can contribute to ruining lives, but it doesn't make people violent.

I still can't believe you're so ignorant you don't realize alcohol can change someone's personality for the worst. Just be grateful you're a happy inebriated person.

I'm going by the science, you're just going by mythical assumptions and believing what drunk people tell you when they refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.