Guns in America

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

But what if MS-13 gang members take over your town and want to rape your family and then torture them to death? You think your Liberal pocket knife will stop them? The facetiousness of the improbable (I’m using the term literally) example of an outrageous statistical anomaly to justify 5,000 kids a year dying by irresponsible gun use, that statistically will never change because we have the data to back it up, is venal and itself outrageous. It’s just outrageous. Of course people will die in statistically rare occurrences, and it’s horrible. But the fact of the matter is people are dying in droves due to the reality of our country’s gun policies. I feel like we’re trying to have a good faith conversation with a 9/11 Truther who just shifts from one grievance to another in order to maintain their delusion.

Zero. Zero is the standard. -_-


- Doc

Doc, for clarification, what age range does that 5000 per year represent? I ask only because effective safety measures may vary depending on age.

Well, I’m not hung up the details of ‘children’ dying because we really ought to be concerned about Americans dying and being injured by firearms. So, to be clear I don’t know at what age that category tops out at.

- Doc

[Binger]

They are fun. I learned to shoot pistols with a snubnose S&W. My mom taught me. She learned to shoot from her mom. The snubbies are much harder to shoot accurately than the same caliber or frame with a longer barrel. I recommend trying it

So, there are people who enjoy firing an inherently inaccurate weapon for "fun"?

I dunno. I was taught that firearms were for killing people who might themselves be trying to kill me. Where the fun would be in firing a weapon whose design rendered it ineffective for that purpose I cannot think. Perhaps I can think of too many other ways to have fun that seem markedly superior?

You need a better teacher, obviously. I recommend Colion Noir if you are just looking for information. They are very fun revolvers.

[Atlanticmike]

But what if MS-13 gang members take over your town and want to rape your family and then torture them to death? You think your Liberal pocket knife will stop them? The facetiousness of the improbable (I’m using the term literally) example of an outrageous statistical anomaly to justify 5,000 kids a year dying by irresponsible gun use, that statistically will never change because we have the data to back it up, is venal and itself outrageous. It’s just outrageous. Of course people will die in statistically rare occurrences, and it’s horrible. But the fact of the matter is people are dying in droves due to the reality of our country’s gun policies. I feel like we’re trying to have a good faith conversation with a 9/11 Truther who just shifts from one grievance to another in order to maintain their delusion.

Zero. Zero is the standard. -_-


- Doc

There's a very logical reason why you, k Graham, Marcus are on one side and I'm on the other. Simply put, the reason the First and Second Amendments are the First and Second Amendments, is because the founding fathers wanted them front and center!! Because they understood there's always been men like you, Marcus and K Graham!! There's always been men who are willing to give up liberty for false security. Your type have always existed. The founding fathers spent many sleepless nights thinking about how they could keep men like you three from destroying the freedoms God bestowed upon us. I find comfort in freedom and liberty and understand how lucky I am to be a citizen, while men like you, K Graham and Marcus, because of your low character and inability to act and think like real men, you're perfectly willing to live a life of servitude. Face it beta boy!! You're the reason the Constitution was written!!!

Now go report this post so your butt buddy pancakes can hide it from all the new readers

[Marcus]

Doc, for clarification, what age range does that 5000 per year represent? I ask only because effective safety measures may vary depending on age.

Well, I’m not hung up the details of ‘children’ dying because we really ought to be concerned about Americans dying and being injured by firearms. So, to be clear I don’t know at what age that category tops out at.

- Doc

The ages are 0-17.

[Res Ipsa]

Doc, for clarification, what age range does that 5000 per year represent? I ask only because effective safety measures may vary depending on age.

Well, I’m not hung up the details of ‘children’ dying because we really ought to be concerned about Americans dying and being injured by firearms. So, to be clear I don’t know at what age that category tops out at.

- Doc

I understand. Just trying to wrap my brain around the numbers. As an example, I doubt that a significant percent of 0-5s die in hunting accidents, but I suspect that percentage gets higher with age.

We don't have a good system for tracking this stuff, especially accidental gun deaths and injuries. https://efsgv.org/learn/type-of-gun-vio ... shootings/ The "official" source of numbers appears to be a CDC database that includes deaths and causes. But there are questions about its accuracy and completeness. I didn't run the search myself, but the page I linked to says that 500 Americans die per year die from accidental firearm discharges. If that's accurate, then of those 5000 kids per year, very few deaths are accidental. My gut says something's off somewhere, but I haven't tried to run my own searches on the database. https://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html But, if we want to reduce deaths, I think it's important to know whether the major risks are accidental, homicide or suicide.

[Res Ipsa]

Well, I’m not hung up the details of ‘children’ dying because we really ought to be concerned about Americans dying and being injured by firearms. So, to be clear I don’t know at what age that category tops out at.

- Doc

The ages are 0-17.

Thanks, Marcus!

[Res Ipsa]

But what if MS-13 gang members take over your town and want to rape your family and then torture them to death? You think your Liberal pocket knife will stop them? The facetiousness of the improbable (I’m using the term literally) example of an outrageous statistical anomaly to justify 5,000 kids a year dying by irresponsible gun use, that statistically will never change because we have the data to back it up, is venal and itself outrageous. It’s just outrageous. Of course people will die in statistically rare occurrences, and it’s horrible. But the fact of the matter is people are dying in droves due to the reality of our country’s gun policies. I feel like we’re trying to have a good faith conversation with a 9/11 Truther who just shifts from one grievance to another in order to maintain their delusion.

Zero. Zero is the standard. -_-


- Doc

There's a very logical reason why you, k Graham, Marcus are on one side and I'm on the other. Simply put, the reason the First and Second Amendments are the First and Second Amendments, is because the founding fathers wanted them front and center!! Because they understood there's always been men like you, Marcus and K Graham!! There's always been men who are willing to give up liberty for false security. Your type have always existed. The founding fathers spent many sleepless nights thinking about how they could keep men like you three from destroying the freedoms God bestowed upon us. I find comfort in freedom and liberty and understand how lucky I am to be a citizen, while men like you, K Graham and Marcus, because of your low character and inability to act and think like real men, you're perfectly willing to live a life of servitude. Face it beta boy!! You're the reason the Constitution was written!!!

Now go report this post so your butt buddy pancakes can hide it from all the new readers

What is the reason and what is your evidence of why the authors of the bill of rights put them in the order they did?

[K Graham]

An ignorant roofer who hires loser alcoholics and gets his information from youtube is going to educate us all on what the Founding Fathers said. Now that's rich. Especially for a Republican who pretends to give a flying damn about what the Constitution says.

[Res Ipsa]

An ignorant roofer who hires loser alcoholics and gets his information from youtube is going to educate us all on what the Founding Fathers said. Now that's rich.

I could save some time, I guess, and cut to the chase. Congress past the first group of amendments, which we call the Bill of Rights, to the states for ratification in 1789. There were 12, 10 of which were approved by the states. The First one was:

Article the first... After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution, there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for every fifty thousand persons.

Oops.

The second one was:

Article the second... No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.

Oops.

Speech, religion, assembly, press and petition were third. Keep and bear arms was fourth.

I've heard this claim before. It's makes a nice catch phrase, but no one has ever been able to provide me with evidence that the legislators presented them in order of perceived importance. Next in order is quartering troops? Did they really think that was more important than the right to a jury trial, to be secure in their homes from unreasonable search and seizure. Implausible on its face.

But maybe Mike will succeed where others have failed. Hope springs eternal.

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/ ... transcript

[Marcus]

The confusion over the 5,000 is my fault. Here's my post, using data from Doc's chart:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

That's over 5,000 minors killed in 2020 by guns. 'Acts of defense' = just under 1500.

I said over 5000 deaths, but going back to the chart, I was in error. The categories are "deaths and injuries", in 2020, for ages 0-11 it's 999; for ages 12-17 it's 4,142.

So my corrected statement is: "over 5,000 minors injured or killed in 2020 by guns."

Acts of defense, still only "just under 1500."