Is being a "Mormon" as a Man (and Married LDS), Better in the Midst of Wokeism & Secular Culture?

[Gadianton]

Interesting, FR. I do appreciate you posting your Batman experience, but then again, you don't recall any details about it and resort to somebody else's review of it. Given how you've suffered so greatly at the theater, I'd expect you'd have more to say about it in your own words.

The thing is, FR, the right-wingers that I know are in a constant frenzy over what "liberals" are doing to society. However, their materials come from emails, memes, and social media exchanges, and shock news commentary. If it wasn't for other people telling them how liberals are ruining everything, they wouldn't know there is a problem. A perfect example is a right-winger in my neighborhood who I see nearly daily. He's in a constant panic over what Democrats are doing next. But interestingly, even though he's a big movie-goer -- he has several grandkids -- I've never, ever heard him complain about feminism or racial agendas in movies.

I think I know why. He's older, he's not on Facebook, he doesn't currently have cable because he's too cheap to pay for it (he's a millionaire by the way), and so he's essentially programmed by right-wing emails from his friends who are in their seventies. For instance, he's still circulating Clinton-Lewinski jokes. The whole "woke" thing as of late is the platform of a slightly younger generation. Simply put, he doesn't know he's supposed be offended.

Part of me wants to send him that video to see what he thinks, but I could be opening Pandora's box, so I don't know if I'll do it.

The "manosphere" (is that what it's called?) is similar in the way it trades in memes and shock value. I don't want to take away from your personal experience, FR, and I'll take it on good faith that you really have been troubled in your movie-going. I'm just pointing out that if it weren't for your insistence that you have taken offense while in the theater personally, I would think that you were just circulating manosphere outrage.

I'll just point out that it helps a lot with credibility when I see people people offer their own analysis.

[huckelberry]

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/20/16955588/ ... ird-fourth

The history of feminism is filled with radicals and progressives and liberals and centrists. It’s filled with splinter movements and reactionary counter-movements. That’s part of what it means to be both an intellectual tradition and a social movement, and right now feminism is functioning as both with a gorgeous and monumental vitality. Rather than devouring their own, feminists should recognize the enormous work that each wave has done for the movement, and get ready to keep doing more work.
/////
above is a nice little summary from the article in the link above.
I remain in the dark about what is so fearsome about this woke thing.

Ok I have seen obnoxious things from some social justice warriors in college. I likely spot to for individuals to get worked up thinking they know so much. I watched in horror a utube of students disrupting Jordan Peterson's class by blowing horns bells and insults.

I am not going to exchange my values because some folks claiming to share them act like loud anuses.

[Marcus]

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/20/16955588/ ... ird-fourth

The history of feminism is filled with radicals and progressives and liberals and centrists. It’s filled with splinter movements and reactionary counter-movements. That’s part of what it means to be both an intellectual tradition and a social movement, and right now feminism is functioning as both with a gorgeous and monumental vitality. Rather than devouring their own, feminists should recognize the enormous work that each wave has done for the movement, and get ready to keep doing more work.
/////
above is a nice little summary from the article in the link above.
I remain in the dark about what is so fearsome about this woke thing.

Ok I have seen obnoxious things from some social justice warriors in college. I likely spot to for individuals to get worked up thinking they know so much. I watched in horror a utube of students disrupting Jordan Peterson's class by blowing horns bells and insults.

I am not going to exchange my values because some folks claiming to share them act like loud anuses.

well said.

[Free Ranger]

Good for you. I too am a proponent of civil rights, first and second wave feminism, gay rights and protecting the environment. Never been a communist.

It’s interesting to see you claim this. My guess is that Marcus does not believe you.

Marcus is reacting to a caricature of me in his imagination. He has not taken the time to get to know me as a human being or applied any sense of empathy. I do not know what's going on with him psychologically that he seems so intent on dehumanizing me. But he has certainly not been decent or fair to me.

[Free Ranger]

Interesting, FR. I do appreciate you posting your Batman experience, but then again, you don't recall any details about it and resort to somebody else's review of it. Given how you've suffered so greatly at the theater, I'd expect you'd have more to say about it in your own words.

The thing is, FR, the right-wingers that I know are in a constant frenzy over what "liberals" are doing to society. However, their materials come from emails, memes, and social media exchanges, and shock news commentary. If it wasn't for other people telling them how liberals are ruining everything, they wouldn't know there is a problem. A perfect example is a right-winger in my neighborhood who I see nearly daily. He's in a constant panic over what Democrats are doing next. But interestingly, even though he's a big movie-goer -- he has several grandkids -- I've never, ever heard him complain about feminism or racial agendas in movies.

I think I know why. He's older, he's not on Facebook, he doesn't currently have cable because he's too cheap to pay for it (he's a millionaire by the way), and so he's essentially programmed by right-wing emails from his friends who are in their seventies. For instance, he's still circulating Clinton-Lewinski jokes. The whole "woke" thing as of late is the platform of a slightly younger generation. Simply put, he doesn't know he's supposed be offended.

Part of me wants to send him that video to see what he thinks, but I could be opening Pandora's box, so I don't know if I'll do it.

The "manosphere" (is that what it's called?) is similar in the way it trades in memes and shock value. I don't want to take away from your personal experience, FR, and I'll take it on good faith that you really have been troubled in your movie-going. I'm just pointing out that if it weren't for your insistence that you have taken offense while in the theater personally, I would think that you were just circulating manosphere outrage.

I'll just point out that it helps a lot with credibility when I see people people offer their own analysis.

Well you can either trust me that I was telling the truth or not. I can't control that. If I'm honest you're coming up a little bit condescending. I watched the Batman movie and there were several things that stood out to me but again I did not take notes like I said. My mind instead was consumed by how it was so much like the movie Seven. That annoyed me cuz it just came off as lazy copying. But I thought that I would be fair to you and Google the subject myself so as you would not have to do it, and as I watched the video I shared, I was like, oh yeah that's what I remember that annoyed me. Now you can belittle me and disregard my experience and claim that I have no thoughts of my own and that I am just a complete moron and just absorb other things, other people say, and let them think for me; or you can be fair and believe me when I say that I had come to most of the same conclusions that the woman in the video did. The choice is yours.

I do know what you are talking about, by the way, with many people paroting what they hear from others. About 10 years ago I remember having a conversation with someone on the far-right and they just seemed to parrot everything that Fox News was saying. But the same thing happens on the Left, I have a friend who is slightly far-left and their opinions almost always align with TYT (The Young Turks) and they even mimic the hosts in many ways.

[Marcus]

It’s interesting to see you claim this. My guess is that Marcus does not believe you.

Marcus is reacting to a caricature of me in his imagination. He has not taken the time to get to know me as a human being or applied any sense of empathy. I do not know what's going on with him psychologically that he seems so intent on dehumanizing me. But he has certainly not been decent or fair to me.

Nonsense. I am responding to the comments that you have posted, nothing more, nothing less, just like other posters here.

Speaking of responses, it was interesting to see your response to Gadianton-- a movie was disturbing, but upon further reflection, no actual objections could be personally articulated? It would be interesting to hear what the actual objections to 'wokeness' were, rather than just agreement with other's expressions of the outrage du jour.

[Free Ranger]

Well I'm going to get off for a bit now. I'm going to wrap up my thoughts and feelings so far. For those for which the following does not apply, don't take this personally, I'm probably not talking about you.

I came on here with sincere intentions. I'm always willing to challenge my own thoughts and opinions and that was what I was doing. My opinion was that I might be better off as a man in the Mormon community. So far the overall attitude and behavior on here has not been very fair nor welcoming. I have also sensed a strong general atmosphere of embrace the far-Leftist side of things or we're going to really go at you, really try and dogpile on you and treat you unfairly.

If this is the general atmosphere of the exMormon community, to belittle, condescend, gaslight, misrepresent, insult, name call, and straw man, then Mormon culture looks better to me. Call me a sucker for ethics and Decent Behavior.

Nobody offered me any better alternative. Somebody mentioned Freemasonry and drinking beer. I do not like drinking alcohol, never have. Yes I joined a college fraternity at one point but I never made drinking a habit. But to each his own.

I kind of was hoping that I was wrong in my opinion actually, but all I got was behavior and attitudes that just reinforced my concerns that many in the exMormon Community might have imbibed the leftist ideology to a large degree. So that everyone acts in a kind of groupthink manner to a large degree. Which is fine, we are all tribal mammals. I just didn't expect it among the exMormon Community. I thought that Chris Hanna must be wrong. I had already seen cult wokeism infiltrate the atheist community that I had been a part of for some time. I didn't think it would happen in the exMormon Community who seem to know a lot about cults.

So I go back to one of my main points that, if we are all tribal mammals and I experience worse cultish behavior among some (not all) in the exmormon community and secular places; that means that it's just part of human nature. So I can't really be critical of Mormonism if there are some Mormons that act super culty. Because I'm running into super culty behavior everywhere anyway!

[Kishkumen]

Good luck in your decision, FR. I personally don’t think going to the LDS Church is a bad choice. All organizations have flaws. As long as you go in with your eyes open and know what to expect, you should be fine. There are plenty of pluses to the LDS Church. My sense of most ex-LDS fora is that the participants are still struggling with bad feelings toward the LDS Church and are unlikely to be neutral about the issue.

[MG 2.0]

I came on here with sincere intentions. I'm always willing to challenge my own thoughts and opinions and that was what I was doing. My opinion was that I might be better off as a man in the Mormon community. So far the overall attitude and behavior on here has not been very fair nor welcoming. I have also sensed a strong general atmosphere of embrace the far-Leftist side of things or we're going to really go at you, really try and dogpile on you and treat you unfairly.

If this is the general atmosphere of the exMormon community, to belittle, condescend, gaslight, misrepresent, insult, name call, and straw man, then Mormon culture looks better to me. Call me a sucker for ethics and Decent Behavior.

I’ve read through each of your posts. Others may have a predisposition to look askance at you and find reason to find fault. Personally I think they see a person as articulate as you (an intelligent, thinking exmormon)…able and willing to transparently express their vulnerable self…and speak positively towards the LDS Church…as an anomaly. Accepting your views leads to the slippery slope which could lead towards not only activity in the church but ultimately faith in the underpinnings of the church as described by believers. Not to say this is your ultimate destination or outcome, but they see it as a possibility and therefore dangerous. It puts them in even more of a defensive position in opposition to God, religion, and the American way/tradition, so to speak.

Wokeism, and religious Wokeism in particular, takes no prisoners. God or a religion that ‘just works’ for many is off limits/taboo. Having a metaphorical/nuanced and/or cultural ‘God’ of sorts is a slippery slope.

You are one of the more interesting individuals I’ve seen show up here. You’ve been around the block enough times that your thoughts and opinions are to be respected, not ridiculed.

Thanks again and best wishes in whatever decisions you make. You sound like a good man trying to do the right thing.

Your time and efforts to describe your position(s) are again appreciated.

Regards,
MG

[Gadianton]

If I'm honest you're coming up a little bit condescending.

Understandable. A lot of people tell me that. I think it's the pipe.

My mind instead was consumed by how it was so much like the movie Seven

Was Seven "woke"?

oh yeah that's what I remember that annoyed me.

I'm confused, because Seven is a relatively old movie and I can't imagine it's woke.