Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
Personally, I would characterize Literski’s comments as defensive. Maybe a little overly defensive. I didn’t notice him impugning Dan’s character or questioning his intelligence. Of course, whether he said anything that was offensive to Dan is for Dan to say, and I cannot claim to have read every last comment Literski made in the chat. I did read a lot of them, however, and I do not recall things that made me think he was being anything other than a little defensive about Vogel’s treatment and reading of the book he put so much time and effort into producing.
I have also noticed that Mormon Studies, Mormon History, etc., can raise a lot of negative emotions. Good people come into conflict in their disagreements about things. Dan disagrees with the authors of Method Infinite. They do not think he is reading some of their positions correctly. He does not like the way they are responding to his criticisms. I have seen this kind of thing so many times that I am not surprised in the least to see it here. Scholarship can get very personal because it requires so much personal investment and commitment to produce.
I tend to think that in the end all of this will amount to very little. I like all of the parties involved, and I can see why they do not agree. What I imagine will come out of this, ideally, is better arguments and better information. We can leave these people we care about out of the picture for a second and imagine that this uncomfortable process will lead to that. Nothing detracts from the worthwhile accomplishments and contributions of anyone involved in this small kerfuffle.
I have also noticed that Mormon Studies, Mormon History, etc., can raise a lot of negative emotions. Good people come into conflict in their disagreements about things. Dan disagrees with the authors of Method Infinite. They do not think he is reading some of their positions correctly. He does not like the way they are responding to his criticisms. I have seen this kind of thing so many times that I am not surprised in the least to see it here. Scholarship can get very personal because it requires so much personal investment and commitment to produce.
I tend to think that in the end all of this will amount to very little. I like all of the parties involved, and I can see why they do not agree. What I imagine will come out of this, ideally, is better arguments and better information. We can leave these people we care about out of the picture for a second and imagine that this uncomfortable process will lead to that. Nothing detracts from the worthwhile accomplishments and contributions of anyone involved in this small kerfuffle.
“The past no longer belongs only to those who once lived it; the past belongs to those who claim it, and are willing to explore it, and to infuse it with meaning for those alive today.”—Margaret Atwood
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Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
The only comment I made that could be considered "hostile and ad hominem" was when I openly laughed at Dan for claiming expertise in Jungian psychology because he read a couple books decades ago---all the while not realizing that I hold an actual PhD in depth psychology with emphasis in Jungian and archetypal studies. Aside from that, all of my comments were directly challenging his wild assertions about Method Infinite and our positions as authors.
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Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
Anyone want to link to Dr. Litersky’s comments? I don’t see anything from the link on page 1.
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Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
Uh, look above your post.Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:09 pmAnyone want to link to Dr. Litersky’s comments? I don’t see anything from the link on page 1.
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Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
I never claimed expertise in Jungian psychology. You claimed that for me in your sarcastic remark. My argument, which you have yet to address, was about the weakness of the synchronicity and collective unconscious theories, and their misuse in historical discussions.DrNickLiterski wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:51 pmThe only comment I made that could be considered "hostile and ad hominem" was when I openly laughed at Dan for claiming expertise in Jungian psychology because he read a couple books decades ago---all the while not realizing that I hold an actual PhD in depth psychology with emphasis in Jungian and archetypal studies. Aside from that, all of my comments were directly challenging his wild assertions about Method Infinite and our positions as authors.
Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
Mr. Vogel, why won’t you debate live? Are you unsure of your positions?
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Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
Based on your comments thus far, I have no reason to believe that you personally understand Jung's theories of synchronicity or collective unconscious. You said nothing at all about these theories, other than your brief comments in the podcast, where you simply ridiculed us for mentioning either concept. Such ridicule, of course, is also regarded by many as ad hominem attack.dan vogel wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:24 amI never claimed expertise in Jungian psychology. You claimed that for me in your sarcastic remark. My argument, which you have yet to address, was about the weakness of the synchronicity and collective unconscious theories, and their misuse in historical discussions.
Ironically, for you to accuse me of ad hominem at this point brings to mind another Jungian concept, i.e., projection.
Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
Live debate can demonstrate which individual has the better debating skills. It's not a reliable method for getting to the truth.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.
Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.
Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
That’s just something people who aren’t certain of their positions say.Res Ipsa wrote:
Live debate can demonstrate which individual has the better debating skills. It's not a reliable method for getting to the truth.
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Re: Vogel on with Backyard Professor Again
"Technically, no. I don’t even know where I was last night. Or where I am now, or even if I am."
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus.