Mormonism is a cult

[Gadianton]

The subject of this thread is a shocking revelation that only came to me for the first time this morning; Easter Sunday no less. Up until this morning, I did not realize that Mormonism is a cult, although the signs are everywhere. Sure, I've joked about it or baited apologists by saying it, but I'm generally defensive if somebody else who is born-again Christian makes the accusation. But now I finally realize that Mormonism is a cult to a higher degree than the born-again movement is, which is something I find difficult to accept but I think that it's probably true, as of this morning.

Last night I was watching a podcast on YouTube. The podcaster is a Canadian Asian guy, and has a business in a particular industry, and the subject matter is technical. He announces the CEO of a company with a big reputation in the industry will be joining him and I'm feeling some anticipation. So this younger guy gets on he's the CEO. He's got a major beard and I'm a little perplexed until it's revealed his dad was the founder and son took the reigns at his passing. There's a bit of a Tommy Boy moment going on here, for those who have seen that epic movie, but it turns out that the guy had worked with his dad his whole life and so he really did know what he was talking about. Not much was said about Dad, just enough to seal his points with Dad's reputation. Canada has a strong cluster in this industry, and I'm imagining these guys know each other and often in these clusters, all have podcasts and they take turns interviewing each other.

Anyway, the subject is purely technical. The CEO is getting into materials science, and as he's talking it hits me: this guy is Mormon. So I look really close, and yeah, there's definitely an undershirt of some kind going on. And then later, the CEO lists five things. The list of things loosely relates to the subject, but was extraneous information, and item 5 on the list would bring Mormonism to mind for most people. So the list was just assembled to sneak that in. If I were to meet this guy in another country, it was as if he were drawing the first half of an Ichthys on the ground, and if I were to draw the other half, we would recognize each other as brothers. Later, I looked it up online, and the origins go back to a small Utah town, so there it is.

Think about the Reptilian plot to take over the world. The thing about that plot is that the reptiles are successful people. They represent some of the best in every area, but it's all a ruse. Once revealed, the reptiles will admit that none of that other stuff ever mattered, it's all about the ritualistic eating of people. For Mormons, it's about the foundation story of Joseph Smith and his restoration. Trades, specialties, money, political posts; none of these things are real, success is granted by the Lord to draw interest to the fullness of the Gospel.

Where born-again Christians differ is that they don't hold back. After a few minutes, an enthused Christian will drop a "praise the Lord" or "bless his name" or mention church. My right-wing friend was blabbering about his silly beliefs within ten minutes of meeting him for the first time. In contrast, another guy I know from my walks I knew was Mormon the first time I met him. Tall, very handsome, perfect teeth, successful, major G line. After perhaps 3-4 years of his acquaintance, I finally completed the Ichthys and revealed I was one of them, even though he surely suspected it. I mean, we had both spoken of the portion of our lives from living in Utah but no matter how much I baited him, he wouldn't divulge the secret.

And even when Mormons do the little member missionary work that they do, they are coy about it, just like Reptilians. "Hey, you know, there's this thing happening tonight and ...."

So back to the podcast, it's so weird to think about, because here's this guy's dad, a brilliant and highly original engineer, and nothing he did really mattered in his own way of thinking about things, because it's all about this other guy, Joseph Smith, and his over-active imagination. Here is a world-class engineer who centered his life around a guy who couldn't even cook up a fake set of plates that would convince anybody and just used a tile brick as a prop most of the time. It's really mind boggling.

Anyway, I don't mention specifics about the podcast out of respect for the guy, they do some really cool stuff. And we can still respect people who unquestionably believe they are reptiles in a plot for world-dominance because that's what they were raised to believe. Their manner of doing anything at all should reflect good on the plot because they were raised to look at the world through this lens, and can't conceive of the world in any other way.

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Excellent observations, Dean.

I don't know if you saw this article from yesterday titled, "Mormons have discovered Holy Week. Why now?" Here is some good advice for Mormons, If your church has to launch a campaign to embrace Easter in an attempt to appear more normal, you are probably in a cult.

https://religionnews.com/2023/04/08/mor ... k-why-now/

[Doctor Scratch]

A very trenchant and welcome post on this Easter Sunday, Dr. Robbers. Once again we are reminded why *you* are The Dean. I have vacillated over the years on the question of whether or not Mormonism is a "cult." Like you, I have often bristled/felt defensive when I've heard others using that label, but then again, I think there is something to John Larsen's terminology: "cult lite." It seems like there is a spectrum of "cultiness," so to speak, where the more rigid the adherence, the "cult-ier" the given person will be. I mean, I've know lots of LDS over the years who really did not seem like cult members at all, but then again, there were also a decent number of hardcore adherents--zealots, even--who do a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of helping the Church to earn the label of "cult." Meanwhile, there is the culture and the theology, which, with all the secrecy, definitely gives of a "cult-y" vibe of sorts.

Good food for thought, in any case.

[Wonhyo]

Sincerest thanks for this post, Gad. The "cult" label was a low-brow pejorative that, as a TBM for decades, I expected to hear from certain evangelical circles. However, sometimes one can't appreciate the expansive view of his own surroundings until he's moved a bit and can see with a fresh perspective. A non-religious never-Mormon with whom I was speaking recently characterized the church this way: "Mormonism is a cult. It's your friendly neighborhood cult, but a cult nonetheless."

Even "The Simpsons" know there is something humorously cultish about us Mormons, as shown in the short YouTube clip below. (The clip is not the least bit offensive, even for a TBM, unless you're MG 2.0, Midgely, McGregor, or one of our other beloved Mopologists.)

https://youtu.be/otivu3sgSdo

[Kishkumen]

So, I am coming to a different perspective on this, something that will not be surprising to anyone. Cult is a shorthand term we use to describe a minority religious culture that promises a lot and asks a lot of the members of its community. The promises draw people in; the demands keep them in. After all, if you want the benefits—which are gonna be HUGE—you have to pay in what you can, and it will be a lot.

Once a group gets to be a certain size, or a certain level of watered down, it will pass out of its “cult” phase largely because it doesn’t need individual adherents in the same desperate way or it just stops enforcing its will on the community to the same degree. The LDS Church has reached a size that would ordinarily result in a loosening of the organization’s grip, but it remains culty.

Why? I think it is actually the relationship between profits and the temple that is driving this. The changing content of the temple is a big clue that this is the case. The LDS Church will drop a lot of things before it drops the temple, because it takes a full tithe to get into the temple. And the emphasis on holding a recommend keeps the revenue stream pretty consistent. A lot of the money spent on temples had been donated on the front end, so building temples would be less demanding on the church at first. Repairs are often delayed.

Whether it really works out to be so profitable in practice or not, the very material relationship between tithes, temple worship, and temple construction has become the symbol of Mormon success while so many other troubling signs cause anxiety.

I don’t think the temple is culty because of its content. The LDS Church will continue to water down and change the content anyways. What is important is to have a restricted access “cult” within the church that keeps the demands of the religion “culty.” The institution is maintained because of its apparent monetary benefit and its utility as a symbol of success, the “fruits” of the Gospel (more temples coming).

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

MG 2.0, Midgely

Those two removed any doubt in my mind about the Mocult being a cult full of moccultists.

- Doc

[Salvete]

Eureka!

Okay so now we know.

What other things must we avoid, by this definition?

Fox News, definitely. The MAGA people, absolutely.

But what about universities? They have a hierarchical structure with “elites” that can seemingly do no wrong, they require you to pay into them (even just to park). They have hardcore adherents to their sports teams. Definitely at least “cult-lite.”

Internet communities, epecially the more isolated ones like 4Chan can be very cultish.

Dave Ramsey and his followers—definitely a cult.

Can there be good cults?

[Gadianton]

If your church has to launch a campaign to embrace Easter in an attempt to appear more normal, you are probably in a cult.

Indeed, this would be difficult to disagree with, Stake President.

[Gadianton]

"Mormonism is a cult. It's your friendly neighborhood cult, but a cult nonetheless."

Yes, I think that's the gist of it. And I'm sure that the apologists aren't happy about this reality but all they can do is deny it.

[Dr Exiled]

I don't know if there can be good cults in the long run. The individual gets lost in the cult system and that cannot be a good thing. The cult system is a good one to motivate people down a path, and as such, cult principles are part of a lot of organizations outside of religion, like political parties. Japanese industry took on cult like behaviors and governments do the same when it suits them. This former Air Force E-5 likens the military to a cult: https://medium.com/@the_wise_sloth/the- ... 0d6fb13667 One thing about a cult is the power of having everyone on the same page, and when the project is really important, the need to have obedience over all is key.

However, as power corrupts, the leadership will inevitably start to view the membership as pawns or less than human. Leaders will take license. Why have the power to march the people down a particular path if the leadership can't benefit handsomely from it? Individuality is lost in the name of conformity. Dissent and/or questioners must be stifled at every chance. The priest class or fact checkers will answer your questions and correct wrong think. Censorship becomes ok if used to support the conclusion the leadership chose. Those who disagree with the cult must be crazy and must be shunned or cancelled.