Secular folks should worry.

[Doctor Steuss]

When I refer to Judaeo Christian principles I am simply referring to principles such as honesty, integrity, empathy, concern for one’s neighbor, acceptance and allowance for individual beliefs, service without expectation of return, etc.

Prof. Michael Sandel's Harvard lectures on the western history of moral and political philosophy are free to access (I think they are about 10 hours in total). You might find them enjoyable and beneficial. My wife was assigned them as part of a course (I think it was a justice/law course) last year, and I overheard part of a lecture and ended up getting sucked in to watching all of them, and was extremely glad I did.

Somewhere in the lecture series (a lecture with a lot of David Hume in it, If I recall correctly), there's a dude just chilling in a full-on Spiderman costume in the lecture hall, just so you have something extra to look forward to.

ETA:
Might be fun to juxtapose the lecture series with a "Very Short Introduction" read on the Bible (John Riche's). In particular, the sections of the book devoted to the horrors that were justified within just America's short history utilizing the Bible (or, explicitly "Judeo-Christian principles," I guess one could say).

Basically, there are much richer, and thoughtful reasons for honesty, integrity, empathy, etc., than "God said to do it" -- and those reasons may be less prone to being thrown to the wayside by proof-texting.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Reading this made me throw up a little in my mouth. These are not Judaeo-Christian values. Where these exist, it's because they're universal human values that cut across the boundaries of culture and religion. That you try to assign exclusive ownership to your own club is beyond the pale.

Maybe MG 2.0 is at heart a sociopath, and only the fear of god's punishment makes MG 2.0 ever tell the truth, have any integrity, concern for, accepting of others, etc. If it wasn't for fear of god's wrath, MG 2.0 might be an absolute, total reprobate.

Maybe?

https://www.discussmormonism.com/viewto ... 4#p2827794

Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism, and MG constantly lies. Because he’s a dishonest person, and Mormonism amplifies those traits, MG constantly spews untruths about studies, or books, or articles he’s read. He gets fact-checked all the time, but because he’s a sociopath he forges right ahead with little thought to his behavior or the damage it does to Mormonism. MG, you lie constantly, in virtually all of its forms. It’s bananas.

We’re talking about a guy who thinks human decency didn’t exist before the Jews came around. -_-

Talk about a complete and utter disconnect from reality and the ability to see the Other as himself.

- Doc

[MG 2.0]

When I refer to Judaeo Christian principles I am simply referring to principles such as honesty, integrity, empathy, concern for one’s neighbor, acceptance and allowance for individual beliefs, service without expectation of return, etc.

Reading this made me throw up a little in my mouth. These are not Judaeo-Christian values. Where these exist, it's because they're universal human values that cut across the boundaries of culture and religion. That you try to assign exclusive ownership to your own club is beyond the pale.

Call these values and others that can be added to the list whatever you want. That doesn’t matter to me. What does matter is that we recognize that there are common values, universal values if that makes you happy, that civil societies need to adhere to if they’re going to thrive and flourish.

But again, as an example, if honesty and truth telling fall under the umbrella of moral/ethical relativism and/or situational ethics we find ourselves…or or children and grandchildren will, living in a society where trust is a thing of the past. And that’s not good. Secular humanists and religionists I would hope can agree on this point. There are many other things besides honesty and truth telling that are bedrock to any successful society that flourishes and where people, generally speaking, are happy and fulfilled.

Recent pressures in legislative processes to force folks/businesses to do things that go against their convictions are worrisome in my opinion. Is this a battle between secular humanists and religionists? Some might think so. One of many examples where if we don’t have a common ‘civil religion’ where everyone has freedom of speech, free exercise of religion (or no religion), and freedom of exercise of conscience without being forced to choose otherwise, we are heading towards a certain doom and despair. Secular humanists and atheists can’t have it all their way and neither can religionists.

Compromise is essential. It has also been lacking. Roe vs. Wade was overturned. There are those that would attack the Supreme Court simply because they don’t feel as though they have to abide by the law. We have to be a nation that adheres to the law as it is written. The laws are already in place in many instances but are not strictly enforced by prosecutors and others that have authority to administer the law. Gun control is a prime example.

Society is fractured in a number of ways. If a common civil religion…as has existed…ceases to be, we will find ourselves continuing a slow slide into dysfunctional government and anarchy. None of us, secular humanists or religionists want to go there.

All I’m sayin’ is that we always need to be vigilant and open to warning signs of societal deterioration and/or discord and be involved in producing a more perfect Union with a common civil religion or set of values. Right now we’re not there in my opinion.

President Nelson’s address in conference was apropos. We ALL need to be peace makers. Religionists or not.

The future rests on it.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

*snip
- Doc

You are so far out in right field. I’m not sure that you even realize it.

Regards,
MG

[Doctor Steuss]

But again, as an example, if honesty and truth telling fall under the umbrella of moral/ethical relativism and/or situational ethics we find ourselves…or or children and grandchildren will, living in a society where trust is a thing of the past. And that’s not good. Secular humanists and religionists I would hope can agree on this point. There are many other things besides honesty and truth telling that are bedrock to any successful society that flourishes and where people, generally speaking, are happy and fulfilled.

I'm curious, given Mormonism's core reliance on moral relativism and situational ethics, why you have such an aversion to it? That's got to be an interesting dissidence to have to deal with, as a faithful believer of Mormonism.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

*snip
- Doc

You are so far out in right field. I’m not sure that you even realize it.

Regards,
MG

The article as a whole seems to paint a rather dismal portrait of what is to come unless more younger people come to Christ and/or participate in religious activity of some sort that promotes community values of charity/giving beyond one’s self

You’re a cultist who lies constantly and who thinks basic human decency didn’t exist before the Jews did. So. You know. 60 pages of you showing your dumb Mormon ass to the world.

- Doc

[MG 2.0]

Reading this made me throw up a little in my mouth. These are not Judaeo-Christian values. Where these exist, it's because they're universal human values that cut across the boundaries of culture and religion. That you try to assign exclusive ownership to your own club is beyond the pale.

Maybe MG 2.0 is at heart a sociopath, and only the fear of god's punishment makes MG 2.0 ever tell the truth, have any integrity, concern for, accepting of others, etc. If it wasn't for fear of god's wrath, MG 2.0 might be an absolute, total reprobate.

It’s really difficult to wrap my mind around folks like you that are so narrow minded and subject to stereotyping. As I said to Doc, I’m not sure that you even realize what you’re doing.

You are proving my point, however.

We have a LONG way to go, as a society, before we can really understand the other as an individual and not be subject and/or tempted to throw everyone under the bus simply because we don’t like their world view. Res Ipsa struggles with that malady, and he’s a smart guy.

There seems to be a real disconnect between secular humanists and religionists in some respects in some circles.

Being a peacemaker is the ONLY solution sock puppet.

Oh, by the way, I do what I do because it’s right. It makes me happy. I don’t do what’s right because of fear and retribution.

But I do find myself having to repent of wrong doing. That brings joy. But it’s not done out of fear. I know God loves me.

Your comment made above is patently false. What that makes you is to be determined by someone who is at a higher pay grade than me.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

…there are much richer, and thoughtful reasons for honesty, integrity, empathy, etc., than "God said to do it" …

I won’t quibble with you on that.

It doesn’t hurt that God happens to agree.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

*snip
- Doc

You are a marvelous work and a wonder.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

But again, as an example, if honesty and truth telling fall under the umbrella of moral/ethical relativism and/or situational ethics we find ourselves…or or children and grandchildren will, living in a society where trust is a thing of the past. And that’s not good. Secular humanists and religionists I would hope can agree on this point. There are many other things besides honesty and truth telling that are bedrock to any successful society that flourishes and where people, generally speaking, are happy and fulfilled.

I'm curious, given Mormonism's core reliance on moral relativism and situational ethics, why you have such an aversion to it? That's got to be an interesting dissidence to have to deal with, as a faithful believer of Mormonism.

At the end of the day it is because of my belief that God is at the helm and will make course corrections where/when necessary.

Regards,
MG