Correcting the Record

[Kishkumen]

I seem to recall a couple of times when DCP didn't like posts and threads by other posters here, and he still emailed kishkumen to complain.

Very true, Professor Marcus. He also regularly refers to this board as “your board,” when he writes me, as though it were mine and my responsibility to control. In point of fact, the board is Dr.Shades’. He sets the policies, and we have been under his free-speech regime from the outset. I do not control what others say or take responsibility for it.

This place is not Sic et Non, where the proprietor holds the banning lever in hand and reminds the unruly that they are on a short leash. That is fine, and one expects that of a personal blog, but it is close to the opposite of how this place functions.

[Kishkumen]

Kish, you're alright in my book. You've gone after me pretty hard on occasion, but in retrospect it was probably deserved.

Thanks, Everybody Wang Chung. I needed a happy laugh this morning.

[Kishkumen]

Unhappy emails

Sounds like you and he have a similar problem.

LOL! I am glad that as of yet no apologist has taken to emailing me anonymous nastygrams on a daily basis. May it ever remain so. I have only received occasional communications of this nature. DCP’s emails are exponentially better written and more coherent. At the same time, they represent a view of the world that is decidedly at odds with my own in important respects.

[Physics Guy]

Criticism from some posters here may sting apologists more than criticism from others, because it is harder for the apologists to dismiss. I think Kishkumen may be especially frustrating for them in that way. He can't be brushed off for not knowing enough about Mormonism or its Scriptures; he can't be ignored for not being a professional academic; and he's male.

[malkie]

Criticism from some posters here may sting apologists more than criticism from others, because it is harder for the apologists to dismiss. I think Kishkumen may be especially frustrating for them in that way. He can't be brushed off for not knowing enough about Mormonism or its Scriptures; he can't be ignored for not being a professional academic; and he's male.

And we should perhaps recognise that, in some respects, that last, though true, is a sad statement.

[Kishkumen]

If I recall correctly, though, he did make reference to your location and profession, and hinted about how he suspected that your employers may not think highly of your participation here. By doing so he made it easier for a malicious actor to connect the two. (I also seem to remember that Will S hinted about how to find you.)

Or am I imagining things?

Ah, well, it seems that Peterson has decided to name names after all. Too bad. I had changed my posts to soften them, and I had even sent an email of apology to him for being rough, but he has decided he’s had enough, I guess.

It’s too bad. I may not have ever seen eye to eye with him in many things, but I thought he would be reasonable and practice some reciprocity.

No more, then? So noted.

[drumdude]

Midge doxxed Kish in 2013, it's still up on the Mormon dialogue board.


Midge has a real hard-on for doxxing folks. It's better than viagra, and at his age every little bit helps.

[Kishkumen]

Midge doxxed Kish in 2013, it's still up on the Mormon dialogue board.


Midge has a real hard-on for doxxing folks. It's better than viagra, and at his age every little bit helps.

Yes, honestly I regret revealing my identity to DCP. I did it voluntarily because I felt like he should know who it was who was criticizing him. At the same time, I did not ever agree with the idea that my name should be bandied about in public as Kishkumen because I pretty religiously limited my activities to this little board that, according to them, so few people visit anyway. In other words, I was pretty laughably naïve, and of course it became something they liked to hold over my head and on occasion abuse.

Here’s the thing: I could be an active LDS person right now, tithe-paying, temple-attending, and I would feel no different about their activities than I do this moment. And I am not alone. There are plenty of other good LDS people who know the Classic-FARMS dudes and consider the whole thing sad, regrettable, unhealthy, and damaging. I know them by name. I know that they are faithful LDS and frankly top-notch scholars.

I don’t ordinarily say this stuff, but I think it is time to be open about it. The difference is not between testimony and non-testimony here. The difference is not between obedience and non-obedience to LDS leaders. The difference is not between attacking and defending the Church. There is a serious divide between those who think that Classic-FARMS bullying is acceptable and those who don’t. There is a serious divide between those who believe that Classic-FARMS tactics reflect Christ and those who do not see Christ in Classic-FARMS apologetics.

I could go back to Church tomorrow and I would feel exactly the same about Classic-FARMS apologetics, and I would probably continue to post my criticisms of Mopologetics right here. What excuse would the apologists then have for me opposing their methods? They would judge me wicked and apostate not because I am doing anything substantively sinful or disobedient. No, they would judge me sinful and disobedient because I disagree with their methods. Something is wrong with that. I can say with perfect confidence that plenty of faithful LDS academics dislike what Classic-FARMS is about.

[drumdude]

You said one hasty thing, and Dan went nuclear. After your years of being a very moderate voice here. That shows you how little DCP really cares about dialogue.

Everyone can see that you take great care with your words and tone, just like the other academics here. Dan even admitted that the academics here are “capable of intelligent discussion” (insert giant eye roll.)

I assume what bothers you and other academics here is that Daniel Peterson is using his academic credentials as a weapon of disinformation, and even intimidation. Interpreter has enough propaganda in it to make the Kremlin jealous. It makes a mockery of scholarship. And when any academic or prominent figure, like John Dehlin, or Jeremy Runnels, or Brent Metcalfe points that out- they get doxxed and smeared by the so-called Journal.

Honestly it’s time for more academics to step forward and really put a spotlight on this extremely ugly side of Mormonism. So much public embarrassment and shame that the brethren are forced to publicly distance themselves from it. Enough is enough.

DCP and his friends’ apologetics are not keeping anyone in the church. They’re driving members away. The “no slam dunks, offense is the best defense” strategy is not doing the church leaders any favors. The Maxwell Institute needs to be endorsed as the only legitimate source for honest apologetics. Set Interpreter on the curb with the other trash like Midnight Mormons where it belongs.

[malkie]

If I recall correctly, though, he did make reference to your location and profession, and hinted about how he suspected that your employers may not think highly of your participation here. By doing so he made it easier for a malicious actor to connect the two. (I also seem to remember that Will S hinted about how to find you.)

Or am I imagining things?

Ah, well, it seems that Peterson has decided to name names after all. Too bad. I had changed my posts to soften them, and I had even sent an email of apology to him for being rough, but he has decided he’s had enough, I guess.

It’s too bad. I may not have ever seen eye to eye with him in many things, but I thought he would be reasonable and practice some reciprocity.

No more, then? So noted.

Perhaps I should have been clearer - I'm talking about something that happened several years ago - perhaps as much as 15 years.