You're Wrong

[Moksha]

In 2014 Evangelical groups from the US were able to talk the Ugandan President into passing anti-gay legislation that would include the death penalty. The courts struck it down. Now in 2023, those Evangelical groups from the US are back and talked the Ugandan President into even harsher anti-gay legislation.

If they could do this to the Ugandan President, think what these Evangelicals could do to an even more suggestible Trump who no longer allows himself to be surrounded by non-sycophants.

[ajax18]

And yet Glenn Beck, Ben Shapiro, Ted Cruz, and the New York Times were wrong about Trump being a pro abortion Democrat that would govern as a moderate Democrat if elected. Maybe they confused Trump with Mitt Romney. Trump repealed Roe v. Wade, not GWB.

Yeah, who could've predicted that the guy who lies about everything and anything, and has absolutely no core ideology beyond narcissism and self-preservation would flip-flop on a core identity politic.

"I'm very pro-choice... I am pro-choice in every respect." ~Presidential Candidate, Donald J. Trump, Reform Party

Incidentally, you sure the angle you want to take here is that President Trump legislated through the judicial branch, and nominated people he knew would perjure themselves in confirmation hearings?

Sure, unlike the controlled opposition Trump will fight fire with fire. Mitt Romney would have never appointed 3 pro life justices. Mitt is what a flip flopper is. Trump said we need to talk about abortion differently but he never believed in killing 6 to 9 month old babies, which is exactly what pro choice means.

[Chap]

... killing 6 to 9 month old babies, which is exactly what pro choice means.

No it doesn't. Firstly, you are clearly trying to change the normal English usage, under which referring to a 'nine-month-old baby' means 'a baby born nine months ago'.

You want to take it as meaning 'a fetus that has been developing in the womb from 9 months ago', abolishing the medical category of 'fetus' (and presumably also 'embryo'), to replace both with 'baby'.

I know of nobody who is seriously advocated that terminating the life of a nine-month fetus should be a matter of 'choice' open to all. You know very well that this only occurs in a medical context when there is a direct choice between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus, or when the fetus is so grossly abnormal that it is incapable of surviving outside the womb and can only suffer an agonising death if it is born normally.

But hey! Free speech means no-one should call you out whatever nonsense you spout, doesn't it?

[Doctor Steuss]

Trump said we need to talk about abortion differently but he never believed in killing 6 to 9 month old babies, which is exactly what pro choice means.

If that's what pro-choice means, I'll repeat this since it didn't seem to sink in the first go-around.

"I'm very pro-choice... I am pro-choice in every respect." ~ Donald J Trump, during his Reform Party primary run.

Tell me more about this Mitt Romney guy though. Lol.

ETA: I notice you specifically chose the term "pro-life" for Trump's nominees rather than "conservative." Could that be because there were actual conservatives in the majority decision on a certain 1973 supreme court case? At least now we know that you think Trump was a feckless leader, and couldn't legislate his cult wedge ideology even with chamber majorities. Unrelated, remind me again about this beautiful health plan of his, that I'm sure we'll finally see any day now?

[Some Schmo]

I know of nobody who is seriously advocated that terminating the life of a nine-month fetus should be a matter of 'choice' open to all. You know very well that this only occurs in a medical context when there is a direct choice between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus, or when the fetus is so grossly abnormal that it is incapable of surviving outside the womb and can only suffer an agonising death if it is born normally.

Again, we see that the right can't argue on merits and must replace an argument with a lie. They want to be dictators, telling people what to do with their bodies, and are entirely comfortable lying to get there. We all know the right is far more comfortable with a nine month old, living baby being shot in a mass shooting than a fetus being aborted, because gun rights are more important to them than women's rights.

Can you imagine spending your life being this angry and frightened over innumerable BS premises, or being such an insecure control freak you have to lie to make people do what you want? These people are pathetic liars. They don't care about unborn fetuses. They only care about controlling other people, and they damned lie when they say otherwise.

[Gadianton]

But hey! Free speech means no-one should call you out whatever nonsense you spout, doesn't it?

And let's also not forget that Ajax is the second to last person in the world to care about abortion anyway. He cares slightly more than my right-wing friend does. Ajax cares about his bottom line and that's all. Most men who are fanatical right-wing anti-abortionists are in a real bind. On the one hand, their longest running narrative is disdain for low-income people with lots of kids who don't pay taxes. And so why would my right-wing friend or Ajax care so much when its going to be his tax money ultimately going exactly to where he complains the most about it going?

In order to swallow that, they would have to hate something else even more. And they do, they want to get back at women, specifically feminists, and so they'll bear the tax burden on the mere hope of "the left" suffering. Beyond feminists, even an under-age rape victim who they don't have disdain for per se, still gives them satisfaction because it hurts the feelings of "the left" to watch the child suffer. And so it's still worth it.

[Gunnar]

BUT, I'm willing to play along (even though you keep asking me to defend arguments I'm not making). I would define "woke" as "a religious-like pursuit of diversity, equity, and inclusion to the detriment of all other virtues." For the average MAGA "woke" just means "anything progressive liberals believe".

If one defines "woke" as "a religious-like pursuit of diversity, equity, and inclusion to the detriment of all other virtues", I would oppose it too! But I suspect that the only people who really define it that way are those who are at least subconsciously uncomfortable with the very idea that advocating and promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion, is itself an admirable virtue. In other words, they don't want to admit or be made to feel guilty about their own latent bigotry and intolerance.

It has also become blazing obvious to me that to many hard-right conservatives (especially the MAGA type), the real or greater bigotry is opposition to their own bigotry. I am convinced that this is the real impetus behind much of the "anti-woke" nonsense.

[Vēritās]

I consider myself woke, but I would love for Tim or anyone else for that matter to explain to me how my wokeness is like a religious thing. Calling it religious like is just silly, and is relayed from right wing mischaracterizations.

[ajax18]

... killing 6 to 9 month old babies, which is exactly what pro choice means.

No it doesn't. Firstly, you are clearly trying to change the normal English usage, under which referring to a 'nine-month-old baby' means 'a baby born nine months ago'.

You want to take it as meaning 'a fetus that has been developing in the womb from 9 months ago', abolishing the medical category of 'fetus' (and presumably also 'embryo'), to replace both with 'baby'.

I know of nobody who is seriously advocated that terminating the life of a nine-month fetus should be a matter of 'choice' open to all. You know very well that this only occurs in a medical context when there is a direct choice between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus, or when the fetus is so grossly abnormal that it is incapable of surviving outside the womb and can only suffer an agonising death if it is born normally.

But hey! Free speech means no-one should call you out whatever nonsense you spout, doesn't it?

So progressuves should have no problem banning abortions after a fetus is 6 months old or more? Nonsense, huh?

[Tim]

I consider myself woke, but I would love for Tim or anyone else for that matter to explain to me how my wokeness is like a religious thing. Calling it religious like is just silly, and is relayed from right wing mischaracterizations.

I don't know you so I have no idea how religious your pursuit of diversity, equity, and inclusion are. I would consider it "religious-like" if the methods you employ in pursuit of those virtues couldn't be questioned or challenged and you in turned dismissed the concerns raised by other virtues.

I'm guessing you think some people are religiously devoted to Trump. If they can be religious in their political pursuits then it can follow other people can too.