If plates then God

[MG 2.0]

[...] Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon on his own despite the evidence that shows it is unlikely that he could have done so. [...]

The existence of the Book of Mormon is evidence that he was not only capable of doing so, but in fact did author it.

Thank you Doctor Steuss. Five for five.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

When you have to misrepresent someone else's words this badly to make your argument, you have no argument at all.

If I’m not mistaken tagriffy expressed his opinion that with a high degree of probability he thinks Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon.

Yes, I then interjected the fact that there is a good amount of information that would counter that opinion. I should have left his opinion/response ‘as is’.

Regards,
MG

It's worse than that. Tim already told you the evidence that he is relying -- evidence you simply leave out. That's what makes your "poll" a meaningless exercise.

[Shulem]

It's worse than that. Tim already told you the evidence that he is relying -- evidence you simply leave out. That's what makes your "poll" a meaningless exercise.

The numbering of the poll 1-10 got me somewhat confused.

[MG 2.0]

…your "poll" [is] a meaningless exercise.

I don’t think so. I think that it’s OK to get everything out in the open.

There have been a number of theories over the years as to how Joseph ‘did it’. The theory that seems to have risen to the top among unbelievers and/or critics is that Joseph made it all up and was a sponge, of sorts, to what was in his environment.

The responses thus far seem to demonstrate this to be true among a small group here.

In a sense, maybe you’re right…we may have had an inkling as to how people would respond.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

So the five out of five may be adequate to seal things off on this ‘poll’ unless others feel like they would like to respond.

I find it helpful as a believer to have a finger on the pulse of those that believe the Book of Mormon to more or less to be a fraud perpetrated by a fraud. Maybe a pious fraud, but fraud nonetheless.

The opinions of the critics can then be compared and held up against what believers accept as strong evidences for why they believe Joseph was not on his own and would have had to have some extraordinary help.

God, angels, plates, and all that.

Thanks for playing along.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Smith is indeed the sole author of every word he dictated, a minor clarification might be that he, um, borrowed more than a few of those words from other sources before he lumped them together into his storyline, and then dictated them.

That makes three that think Joseph dictated the Book of Mormon from his own mind.

And we have at least one that thinks he did so after being a sponge, of sorts, in preparation for the dictation.

Thanks Marcus....

No, you are misinterpreting what i said. I don't say or imply Smith was "a sponge, of sorts, in preparation." I said he plagiarized, which I will further define as a dishonest act. One which, in my opinion, indicated his fraudulent intent.

You have now disingenuously misstated multiple people's comments.

[MG 2.0]

That makes three that think Joseph dictated the Book of Mormon from his own mind.

And we have at least one that thinks he did so after being a sponge, of sorts, in preparation for the dictation.

Thanks Marcus....

No, you are misinterpreting what i said. I don't say or imply Smith was "a sponge, of sorts, in preparation." I said he plagiarized, which I will further define as a dishonest act. One which, in my opinion, indicated his fraudulent intent.

Like I said, a sponge of sorts.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

No, you are misinterpreting what i said. I don't say or imply Smith was "a sponge, of sorts, in preparation." I said he plagiarized, which I will further define as a dishonest act. One which, in my opinion, indicated his fraudulent intent.

Like I said, a sponge of sorts.

Regards,
MG

So, your disingenuous opinion is that a 'sponge, of sorts' is the same as a dishonest plagiarizer, with fraudulent intent.

[Marcus]

...Nobody has ever claimed that the Book of Mormon wasn't written by mortals, however. In fact the strongest Mormon claim about it is that it was written by primitive people in a language and script that they themselves found difficult to write. The text is explicitly admitted to have human flaws. So, completely unlike the Quran, the miracle of the Book of Mormon is not the text itself but only the supposed feat of translating it, from Reformed Egyptian that describes itself as flawed and limited into a stilted version of King James Bible English. And since the original Reformed Egyptian text has never been available, even this weirdly limited miracle is only an alleged miracle.

And if I understand correctly, the LDS church is even backing down from asserting Smith "translated" "reformed Egyptian," at least in the conventional way the word is used.

So we are left with using a rock to channel, I suppose.

[defn of channel]
esp. in some New Age beliefs, the process by which a person becomes a conduit for a deceased person, as someone from an ancient culture, who imparts information about a previous life.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... channeling

[MG 2.0]

Like I said, a sponge of sorts.

Regards,
MG

So, your disingenuous opinion is that a 'sponge, of sorts' is the same as a dishonest plagiarizer, with fraudulent intent.

The word ‘disingenuous’ is yours, not mine. But, yes, I would maintain that those that accuse Joseph Smith as a plagiarist would be accusing him of soaking up and taking information from one source and squeezing it out into another.

I’m not sure just how nit picky you’re going to get on this, but I guess we’ll find out.

By the way, I don’t think that there is any substantial and/or sustainable evidence that holds any amount of water that Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon through the process of plagiarism.

It should be important to note that this is conjecture on your part. Unless you can show evidence.

And I will point out again, as I have at other times to others, that as a disbeliever in a creator God you (and others) have no other option but to discredit/disbelieve anyone that claims to have seen angels, received plates, seen God, etc.

I think that object always needs to be seen sitting on the table.

Regards,
MG