Biden needs to step aside

[drumdude]

Biden looked drugged.

[honorentheos]

Biden looked drugged.

It was interesting trying to read his body language. Trump would be spewing the craziest BS (Charlottesville was made up, anyone?) and Biden often had the stunned disoriented look of someone who just found themselves in a bizarre dream world ran by a giant feral narcissistic umpalumpa. Outside of the context of a debate, understandable. Unfortunately this just so happened to be a debate. Anyway.

[Dr. Sunstoned]

I'm telling myself that it is still early and that there could be a second debate, which hopefully Biden could do better. Biden did call out some of Trump's lies. I think he could have done a better job of it though. Trump dodged the question of whether he would support a transition, win or lose.

[honorentheos]

I'm telling myself that it is still early and that there could be a second debate, which hopefully Biden could do better. Biden did call out some of Trump's lies. I think he could have done a better job of it though. Trump dodged the question of whether he would support a transition, win or lose.

I think I missed the question where Trump didn't dodge with his answer.

[honorentheos]

Early transcript for reference and example exchange which seems to be reported on as one of Biden's worst mixups:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics ... index.html

TAPPER: President Trump, over the last eight years, under both of your administrations, the national debt soared to record highs. And according to a new non-partisan analysis, President Trump, your administration approved $8.4 trillion in new debt.

While so far, President Biden, you’ve approved $4.3 trillion in new debt.

So former President Trump, many of the tax cuts that you signed into law are set to expire next year. You want to extend them and go even further, you say. With the U.S. facing trillion-dollar deficits and record debt, why should top earners and corporations pay even less in taxes than they do now?

Trump: Because the tax cuts spurred the greatest economy that we’ve ever seen just prior to COVID, and even after COVID. It was so strong that we were able to get through COVID much better than just about any other country. But we spurred – that tax spurred. Now, when we cut the taxes, as example, the corporate tax was cut down to 21 percent from 39 percent, plus beyond that, we took in more revenue with much less tax and companies were bringing back trillions of dollars back into our country.

The country was going like never before. And we were ready to start paying down debt. We were ready to start using the liquid gold right under our feet, the oil and gas right under our feet. We were going to have something that nobody else has had. We got hit with COVID. We did a lot to fix it. I gave him an unbelievable situation with all of the therapeutics and all of the things that we came up with, we – we gave him something great.

Remember, more people died under his administration, even though we had largely fixed it. More people died under his administration than our administration, and we were right in the middle of it.

Something which a lot of people don’t like to talk about, but he had far more people dying in his administration.

He did the mandate, which is a disaster, mandating it. The vaccine went out. He did a mandate on the vaccine, which is the thing that people most objected to about the vaccine. And he did a very poor job, just a very poor job.

And I will tell you, not only poor there, but throughout the entire world, we’re no longer respected as a country. They don’t respect our leadership. They don’t respect the United States anymore.

We’re like a Third World nation between weaponization of his election, trying to go after his political opponent. All of the things he’s done. We’ve become like a Third World nation, and it’s a shame.

The damage he’s done to our country – and I’d love to ask him, and will, why he allowed millions of people to come in here from prisons, jails, and mental institutions to come into our country and destroy our country.

TAPPER: President Trump, we will get to immigration later in this block. President Biden, I want to give you an opportunity to respond to this question about the national debt.

BIDEN: He had the largest national debt of any president in a four-your period, number one. Number two, he – that $2 trillion tax cut benefited the very wealthy. I – what I’m going to do is fix the tax system.

For example, we have a thousand trillionaires in America – I mean, billionaires in America. And what’s happening? They’re in a situation where they, in fact, pay 8.2 percent in taxes. If they just paid 24 percent or 25 percent, either one of those numbers, they’d raised $500 million – billion dollars, I should say, in a 10-year period.

We’d be able to right wipe out his debt. We’d be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do – childcare, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the – with – with – with the COVID. Excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with – look, if – we finally beat Medicare.

TAPPER: Thank you, President Biden. President Trump?

Trump: Well, he’s right. He did beat Medicare. He beat it to death. And he’s destroying Medicare because all of these people are coming in, they’re putting them on Medicare. They’re putting them on Social Security. They’re going to destroy Social Security.

This man is going to single-handedly destroy Social Security. These millions and millions of people coming in, they’re trying to put them on Social Security. He will wipe out Social Security. He will wipe out Medicare. So he was right in the way he finished that sentence. And it’s a shame.

What’s happened to our country in the last four years is not to be believed. Foreign countries, I’m friends with a lot of people. They cannot believe what happened to the United States of America. We’re no longer respected. They don’t like us.

We give them everything they want, and they think we’re stupid. They think we’re very stupid people.

What we’re doing for other countries, and they do nothing for us. What this man has done is absolutely criminal.

TAPPER: Thank you, President Trump.

[honorentheos]

TAPPER: Let’s turn to the issue of democracy. Former President Trump, I want to ask you about January 6, 2021. After you rallied your supporters that day, some of them stormed the Capitol to stop the constitutionally mandated counting of electoral votes. As President, you swore an oath to quote, “preserve, protect and defend”, unquote, the Constitution. What do you say to voters who believe that you violated that oath through your actions and inaction on January 6 and worry that you’ll do it again?

Trump: Well, I don’t think too many believe that. And let me tell you about January 6. On January 6, we had a great border, nobody coming through, very few. On January 6, we were energy independent. On January 6, we had the lowest taxes ever.

We had the lowest regulations ever. On January 6th, we were respected all over the world. All over the world, we were respected. And then he comes in and we’re now laughed at. We’re like a bunch of stupid people that – what happened to the United States’s reputation under this man’s leadership is horrible, including weaponization, which I’m sure at some point you’ll be talking about where he goes after his political opponent because he can’t beat them fair and square.

TAPPER: You have 80 seconds left. My question was, what do you say to those voters who believe that you violated your constitutional oath through your actions, inaction on January 6th, 2021, and worried that you’ll do it again?

Trump: Well, I didn’t say that to anybody. I said peacefully and patriotically. And Nancy Pelosi, if you just watched the news from two days ago, on tape to her daughter, who’s a documentary filmmaker, they say, what she’s saying, oh, no, it’s my responsibility, I was responsible for this. Because I offered them 10,000 soldiers or National Guard. And she turned them down. And the mayor of – in writing, by the way, the mayor, in writing turned it down, the mayor of D.C., they turned it down. I offered 10,000 because I could see – I had virtually nothing to do.

They asked me to go make a speech. I could see what was happening. Everybody was saying they’re going to be there on January 6th. They’re going to be there. And I said, you know what, that’s a lot of people coming, you could feel it. You could feel it too. And you could feel it. And I said, they ought to have some National Guard or whatever. And I offered it to her. And she now admits that she turned it down. And it was the same day. She was – I don’t know, you can’t be very happy with her daughter because it made her into a liar. She said, I take full responsibility for January 6th.

TAPPER: President Biden?

BIDEN: Look, he encouraged those folks to go up on Capitol Hill, number one. I sat in that dining room off the Oval Office – he sat there for three hours, three hours watching, begging, being begged by his vice president and a number of his colleagues and Republicans as well to do something, to call for a stop, to end it. Instead, he talked – they’ve talked about these people being patriots and – and great patrons of America.

In fact, he says he’ll not forgive them for what they’ve done. They’ve been convicted. He says he wants to commute their sentences and say that, no, he went to every single court in the nation, I don’t know how many cases, scores of cases, including the Supreme Court. And they said they said – they said, no, no, this guy, this guy is responsible for doing what is being – was done. He didn’t do a damn thing. And these people should be in jail. And they should be the ones who are being held accountable. And he wants to let them all out.

And now he says if he loses again, such a whiner that he is, that there could be a bloodbath.

TAPPER: Thank you, President Biden.

President Trump?

Trump: What they’ve done to some people that are so innocent, you ought to be ashamed of yourself, what you have done, how you’ve destroyed the lives of so many people. When they ripped down Portland, when they ripped down many other cities, you go to Minnesota, Minneapolis, what they’ve done there with the fires all over the city, if I didn’t bring in the National Guard, that city would have been destroyed.

When you look at all of the – they took over big chunks of Seattle. I was all set to bring in the National Guard. They heard that. They saw them coming and they left immediately. What he said about this whole subject is so off. Peacefully patriotic.

One other thing, the “unselect committee,” which is basically two horrible Republicans that are all gone now, out of office, and Democrats, all Democrats, they destroyed and deleted all of the information they found because they found out we were right. We were right. And they deleted and destroyed all of the information. They should go to jail for that.

If a Republican did that, they’d go to jail.

TAPPER: Thank you, President Trump.

President Biden, I want to give you a minute.

BIDEN: The only person on this stage that is a convicted felon is the man I’m looking at right now. And the fact of the matter is he is – what he’s telling you is simply not true. The fact is that there was no effort on his part to stop what was going on up on Capitol Hill. And all those people, every one of those who were convicted deserves to be convicted. The idea that they didn’t kill somebody, just went in and broke down doors, broke the windows, occupied offices, turned over desks, turned them over, statues, the idea that those people are patriots? Come on.

When I asked him about first of two debates we had – debates we had the first time around, I said, will you denounce the Proud Boys. He said, no, I’ll tell them stand by. The idea he’s refusing – will you denounce these guys? Will you denounce the people we’re talking about now? You denounce the people who attacked that Capitol? What are you going to do?

TAPPER: I’m going to give you a – a minute, President Trump, for a follow-up question I have. After a jury convicted you of 34 felonies last month, you said if re-elected, you would, quote, “have every right to go after,” unquote, your political opponents. You just talked about members of the Select Committee on January 6th going to jail.

Your main political opponent is standing on stage with you tonight.

Can you clarify exactly what it means about you feeling you have every right to go after your political opponents?

Trump: Well, I said my retribution is going to be success. We’re going to make this country successful again because right now it’s a failing nation.

My retribution is going to be success. But when he talks about a convicted felon, his son is a convicted felon at a very high level. His son is convicted. Going to be convicted probably numerous other times.

He should have been convicted before, but his Justice Department let the statute of limitations lapse on the most important things. But he could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office.

Joe could be a convicted felon with all of the things that he’s done. He’s done horrible things.

All of the death caused at the border, telling the Ukrainian people that, we’re going to want a billion dollars or you change the prosecutor. Otherwise, you’re not getting a billion dollars.

If I ever said that, that’s quid pro quo. That – we’re not going to do anything. We’re not going to give you a billion dollars unless you change your prosecutor having to do with his son.

This man is a criminal. This man – you’re lucky. You’re lucky. I did nothing wrong. We’d have a system that was rigged and disgusting. I did nothing wrong.

TAPPER: Thank you, President Trump.

President Biden, you have said, I’m coming right to you, sir. You – well, you want to respond? Go ahead. I’ll give you a minute to respond.

BIDEN: The idea that I did anything wrong relative to what you’re talking about is outrageous. It’s simply a lie, number one.

Number two, the idea that you have a right to seek retribution against any American, just because you’re a president, is wrong, is simply wrong. No president’s ever spoken like that before. No president in our history has spoken like that before.

Number three, the crimes that you are still charged with. And think of all the civil penalties you have. How many billions of dollars do you owe in civil penalties for molesting a woman in public, for doing a whole range of things, of having sex with a porn star on the night – and while your wife was pregnant?

I mean, what are you talking about? You have the morals of an alley cat.

TAPPER: Give you a minute, sir.

Trump: I didn’t have sex with a porn star, number one.

Number two, that was a case that was started and moved. They moved a high-ranking official, a DOJ, into the Manhattan D.A.’s office to start that case. That case is going to be appealed in one.

We had a very terrible judge, horrible judge, Democrat. The prosecutor were all high-ranking Democrats appointed people and the – both the civil and a criminal.

He basically went after his political opponent because he thought it was going to damage me. But when the public found out about these cases, because they understand it better than he does, he has no idea what these cases are, but when he – they – when they found out about these cases, you know what they did? My poll numbers went up way up. You know that because you’re reporting it. And we took in more money in the last two weeks than we’ve ever taken in the history of any campaign.

I don’t think any campaign has ever taken hundreds of millions of dollars came pouring in because the public knows it’s a scam and it’s a guy that’s after his political opponent because he can’t win fair and square.

TAPPER: Thank you, President Trump.

[Kishkumen]

We are here because millions of Americans have the poor judgment to vote for a guy like Trump. All the rest of this train wreck comes out of that simple fact. That’s not a debate really. There was no debate. There was one guy lying and another guy calling him a liar (accurately).

But I think we all understand that in the screwed up political environment wherein this travesty is our reality, we are in real trouble. Hopefully the second pseudo-debate (talkathon) goes a lot better for Biden. Democracy may not survive another 4 years of Trumpism.

One of my huge beefs is that they agreed to call Trump “President Trump.” There was one current president on that “debate” stage and his name is Joe Biden. Trump is not president, and when he is on the stage with the sitting president he should not be addressed as “President” Trump. Just allowing that was damaging, and there is no good reason to do it.

This point, though seemingly minor, is in fact particularly important since he and his followers have lied about him having won the last election. That fact alone demands that you address this knob as “Mr. Trump,” which is too nice for him, but necessary for protocol’s sake.

[ceeboo]

As a human being: Heartbreaking to watch - I felt for Biden's family - I struggle to understand how his inner circle could possibly have allowed him to take the stage.

As an American citizen: Watching the sitting President was very troubling/concerning on several levels.

As a Christian: I am saddened as I anticipate how many will use this heart-wrenching event to mock and humiliate a human being for political gains. Understanding how many families face similar/difficult situations with a loved one, I find myself overflowing with empathy and compassion.

[Xenophon]

Anyone hoping to see a strong Biden wipe the floor with Trump would not only be disappointed but feel it may have gone the other way. Anyone reading the transcript of the debate will wonder what the fuss is about.and how anyone could believe a word that comes out of Trump's mouth.

I was unable to watch the debate but was reading the transcript this morning and you've nailed it. I'll need to go back and watch to get the optics piece I guess because I'm getting actual whiplash from a straight reading versus the online reactions I'm seeing.

ETA: we've seen before where part of the issue with anyone engaging Trump is one of differing expectations. At this point everyone expects him to say the wildest, most unhinged garbage you've ever heard. Meanwhile the other side (true even during previous GOP only debates) has to execute flawlessly or be lambasted. That isn't to say Biden's performance wasn't without problems, just that I'm curious how different the discourse might be if they were on an even remotely level playing field.

[yellowstone123]

Like I said before that how we ended up with these two is really sad. DeSantis was my top pick with Halley as VP. I don’t think DeSantis would have treated Biden like Trump did. I just went to Twitter/X - search and put in Biden or Trump and kept refreshing “latest” and saw quickly how things went down hill. If Kennedy from West Virginia and Sinema from Arizona ran and my two favorites ran it would be tough. I also think my candidates may be called to jump back in based on how the Supreme Court rules on Trump which may be their last case released this year. As to Biden, I think it’s clear Biden is not running things and they need a viable candidate. I can’t even predict the next few month as our country is so divided. In the end it’s not really the candidate but his or her machine he or she brings in. It’s the department Secretary or undersecretary and on that really runs things.