Does character still matter in politics?

[Kishkumen]

I did not tell you that your thread is the problem. Here is what I said.

Thread titles like yours, play a huge role in what is damaging America. Devaluing relationships amongst the citizens in America and creating wider division in an already huge divide.

Thread titles like yours that take an extremely large group of very diverse, individual, and complex human beings and cement all of them with a negative label absolutely plays a huge role in damaging America, devaluing relationships, and creates wider division in an already huge divide.

Your thread title contributes to the problem - No doubt about it.

Sorry you feel that way, ceeboo. It is definitely not my fault that the GOP deliberately chose to make bald faced lying in a relentless, aggressive way its go-to strategy for conducting politics. It started before I left. I remember when Lee Atwater accused John McCain of having fathered an illegitimate black child before the South Carolina primary, when the truth was that he had adopted the child. I came close to not voting for Bush for that reason alone. Talk about hideous behavior!!! Little did I know that it was the tip of a very rotten iceberg.

It was when they lied about Iraq—obviously—that I registered as an Independent and never seriously looked back.

[Kishkumen]

I have to agree with Ceeboo. These types of accusation threads are meant to divide - if those stupid Republicans could just pull their heads out of their asses then we'd be fine. Seems like a different tact is needed to convince people to not vote for the circus master. Maybe discuss issues? Maybe resurrect Sanders and his 2016 proposals? The country was aching for populist policies and tired of endless war, but, queen Hillary had to be annointed and now look at where we are.

I think you guys are blaming the wrong people. Trump should lose big to a better candidate than the corpse he's now facing. It looks like he won't and y'all better pray Rachel Maddow's stasi-like predictions for the next Trump administration don't come true or some here might face his retribution for their support of russiagate and the laptop lie.

Blaming the wrong people? Look, Trump is human garbage. The world would have doubtless been a measurably better place if he had never been born. And that is OBVIOUS. It always has been. Anyone who has supported this filth getting into politics is morally culpable. That is where the blame belongs. I mean, he is a hopeless reprobate, so I kinda blame him less than the people who irresponsibly voted for filth.

[Kishkumen]

Funny how conservatives keep calling Biden a corpse, but they never refer to Trump as a bloated carcass. The latter may, in fact, beat Biden to the grave. Also, the Bloated Carcass appears to be deteriorating mentally faster than Biden.

Weird, huh?

- Doc

It is pretty odd. Think of it: Trump was always scum. Always. He never had an honest or normal day in his life. RFK Jr has a worm in his brain and is a complete red pill looney. But Biden is a corpse. Compared to these off-brand comic book villains a corpse is preferable.

[ajax18]

Remember back in the day when Republicans thought character was king? Remember how William F. Buckley was deeply ashamed that he lost it in his debate with Gore Vidal and used a hateful slur?

What happened?

When did it become OK to lie incessantly, verbally abuse everyone, make fun of the handicapped, basically be a grotesque person?

I was raised to believe that our leaders should represent the best of us. Now millions of Americans are eager to vote for a grotesque, despicable man.

What happened?

The election of 2012 was a big turning point.

[Kishkumen]

The election of 2012 was a big turning point.

For you? Why?

[ceeboo]

I did not tell you that your thread is the problem. Here is what I said.

Thread titles like yours, play a huge role in what is damaging America. Devaluing relationships amongst the citizens in America and creating wider division in an already huge divide.

Thread titles like yours that take an extremely large group of very diverse, individual, and complex human beings and cement all of them with a negative label absolutely plays a huge role in damaging America, devaluing relationships, and creates wider division in an already huge divide.

Your thread title contributes to the problem - No doubt about it.

Sorry you feel that way, ceeboo.

No need to apologize. I was pointing out a reality and hoping that you might consider not partaking in the constant personal demonization that millions of American citizens continue to attach to their fellow citizens. You need not land the plane where I think you should, I was just hoping you might consider it.

[Gadianton]

My questions for Christian values people of truth and the Republican way:

Is Kari Lake the lawful governor of Arizona as she claims, having won her election but the results rigged to show she lost?

If the answer is no, the next question is, does Kari Lake really think she won and therefore, she is being totally honest about it as a fellow Christian?

If the answer isn't "no" to both questions without any hesitation whatsoever, I have to say the prospects of any kind of mutual respect or conversation are nil. "Yes" and "I don't know" aren't acceptable.

Other issues like abortion, LGBQT, gun rights, prayer in the classroom etc. are possible to have a conversation about once the chain of implications to the above questions have been settled. I can understand and in some cases even respect some conservative views here, but more importantly, even if I don't respect many of the views, I can understand why those who might have those views do in fact have them.

Issues like the economy, immigration, inflation and so on are non-starters because I haven't yet met a republican who knows enough to have a conversation about it. I'm sure there are some who exist somewhere, I just haven't met them. I'm sure, once the "no's" along with the chain of implications from those "no's" to my two questions have been settled, then should a Republican demonstrate enough interest or understanding of the grown-up subjects, I think it would be possible to have a discussion about it.

[ceeboo]

Issues like the economy, immigration, inflation and so on are non-starters because I haven't yet met a republican who knows enough to have a conversation about it.

That's because republicans don't care - You would have known that if you would have read the thread title.

should a Republican demonstrate enough interest or understanding of the grown-up subjects

You won't find any republicans demonstrating interest or understanding because, in addition to not being grown-ups, none of them care.

[ajax18]

The election of 2012 was a big turning point.

For you? Why?

For a lot of Republicans according to Ben Shapiro. He talks about it a lot in his book and on the Sunday special called "Confessions of a Black Conservative, Glenn Loury. Romney wanted to compromise and stay above the Chicago political machine's gutter campaign. We saw how the media and Democrats treated him. We saw how well Romney's tactics worked . He's a tax cheat, not a real Christian, plutocrat, dog murderer, racist, bully, etc. Obama realized he could win without working class white men in 2012 when he routed Romney in that election. His anti WASP policies and the beginnings of the weaponization of the IRS and justice system against his political opponents started creating coalitions and solidarity amongst those he hated where it didn't exist before. Trump became the giant orange pulsating middle finger to that election, according to Ben. Ben didn't like Trump and didn't vote for him in 2016. But now that Biden has called the 75 million Trump voters a threat to democracy and will likely weaponize the DOJ against Trump donors which Ben now is, you've actually started creating the coalition that has no other choice but to band together and take you down so at the very least you never have the means to weaponize the justice system against right leaning people again. Defenders of democracy? You're authoritarian communists with no more respect for different political opinions than Joseph Stalin or Mao Zadong.

[Kishkumen]

No need to apologize. I was pointing out a reality and hoping that you might consider not partaking in the constant personal demonization that millions of American citizens continue to attach to their fellow citizens. You need not land the plane where I think you should, I was just hoping you might consider it.

Well, I think the thread as a whole explains where Republicans are going wrong. Something HAS changed. There are historical developments that are well documented here. It seems to have quit mattering to Republicans that their political leaders are lying aggressively all the time for political advantage. If there is no political price that the leaders pay for this behavior, I think it is reasonable to suppose that their voters don’t care to find out the truth or don’t care that their leaders are lying viciously.

I really want to understand and why these things are happening. honorentheos brought forward some illuminating history. Did you read it?

One of the things I love about being an Independent is the freedom I have not to identify with the brokenness of our politics. I think the two-party system is terrible. Therefore, I do not belong to one of the parties. And, yes, I do blame the members of the parties for the outcomes of their primaries and the behavior of their leaders. Who else is there to blame?

I blame Democrats for running Hillary when she is a pretty poor candidate. She very much lost to Trump, a weak candidate with no real experience and a whole lot of personal baggage. That was a bad choice on the Democrats’ part. They have a weakness for not recognizing that you have to meet the people where they are, not where you think they ought to be. Republicans these days want to pander to the worst instincts of voters. It’s mostly about fear for them.

I blame the members of these parties. I blame the leaders of these parties. The people in organizations are responsible for outcomes in their organizations.