Does character still matter in politics?

[Kishkumen]

For a lot of Republicans according to Ben Shapiro. He talks about it a lot in his book and on the Sunday special called "Confessions of a Black Conservative, Glenn Loury. Romney wanted to compromise and stay above the Chicago political machine's gutter campaign. We saw how the media and Democrats treated him. We saw how well Romney's tactics worked . He's a tax cheat, not a real Christian, plutocrat, dog murderer, racist, bully, etc. Obama realized he could win without working class white men in 2012 when he routed Romney in that election. His anti WASP policies and the beginnings of the weaponization of the IRS and justice system against his political opponents started creating coalitions and solidarity amongst those he hated where it didn't exist before. Trump became the giant orange pulsating middle finger to that election, according to Ben.

Romney was hurt by his own side. Pretty funny to see Republicans blame Democrats for Romney’s loss when they had already bloodied him up. I felt bad about the way Romney was treated. He is an honorable man. But the poor treatment began with Republicans. And, really, as much as the GOP tried to make Obama fail by blocking everything they could—as was their publicly stated objective—he had been too successful and well liked. He didn’t do something dumb like botch a pandemic response. It is tough to beat an incumbent who is not a screw up like Trump. Bush got us into Iraq and he got re-elected.

[Gadianton]

You won't find any republicans demonstrating interest or understanding because, in addition to not being grown-ups, none of them care.

Ceeboo, Kish's thread title is in the abstract, but the body of post explains that he's talking about character, and central to character is basic honesty, or at least honesty that's somewhere in the barely acceptable realms of traditional political dishonestly.

If I have no reason to believe a person is acting in good faith, it becomes pointless to have a conversation about much else, not to mention it may undermine the credibility of what would otherwise seem to be real concerns.

[Kishkumen]

By the way, ceeboo, I still like you and my other Republican friends, family, and acquaintances. I try not to take any of this stuff too personally. I am heated about Trump, but I don’t think people are their politics. It is because I see daylight between people and their voting that keeps me liking them when I hate their voting choices.

I think there is such thing as mass mental illness, which is quite different from individual mental illness. A healthy person, decent person, can participate in mass immorality or psychosis. It is like those people—normal people—who get swept up in a mob’s passion. Bad things are done by lovely people. Trumpism is mass mental illness phenomenon. TDS affects his fans and his haters, alike.

[ajax18]

For a lot of Republicans according to Ben Shapiro. He talks about it a lot in his book and on the Sunday special called "Confessions of a Black Conservative, Glenn Loury. Romney wanted to compromise and stay above the Chicago political machine's gutter campaign. We saw how the media and Democrats treated him. We saw how well Romney's tactics worked . He's a tax cheat, not a real Christian, plutocrat, dog murderer, racist, bully, etc. Obama realized he could win without working class white men in 2012 when he routed Romney in that election. His anti WASP policies and the beginnings of the weaponization of the IRS and justice system against his political opponents started creating coalitions and solidarity amongst those he hated where it didn't exist before. Trump became the giant orange pulsating middle finger to that election, according to Ben.

Romney was hurt by his own side. Pretty funny to see Republicans blame Democrats for Romney’s loss when they had already bloodied him up. I felt bad about the way Romney was treated. He is an honorable man. But the poor treatment began with Republicans. And, really, as much as the GOP tried to make Obama fail by blocking everything they could—as was their publicly stated objective—he had been too successful and well liked. He didn’t do something dumb like botch a pandemic response. It is tough to beat an incumbent who is not a screw up like Trump. Bush got us into Iraq and he got re-elected.

I don't know how well Santorum bloodied him up. My family was sure fooled by Romney. They sure wouldn't give him money now. Romney and McCain both lost and Trump won. Being too good to fight, milquetoast, and further to the left on policy equals loser.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

...russiagate..

I'm curious what you imagine this refers to? The results of the Muller Report? The 2020 Senate Intelligence Committee Was reports? Or whatever the amygdala tickle is that you feel when Trump says, "Russia, Russia, Russia?"

To be clear, the Senate determined there was collusion. You can read about it from primary sources, it's public record.

That was yesterday.

But, no collusion!

- Doc

[ajax18]

By the way, ceeboo, I still like you and my other Republican friends, family, and acquaintances. I try not to take any of this stuff too personally. I am heated about Trump, but I don’t think people are their politics. It is because I see daylight between people and their voting that keeps me liking them when I hate their voting choices.

I think there is such thing as mass mental illness, which is quite different from individual mental illness. A healthy person, decent person, can participate in mass immorality or psychosis. It is like those people—normal people—who get swept up in a mob’s passion. Bad things are done by lovely people. Trumpism is mass mental illness phenomenon. TDS affects his fans and his haters, alike.

Weaponization of the justice department against your political opponents is far more despicable and damaging to the trust in America's institutions. And yet my neighbor with a Biden flag and I are friends. We'll see if it stays that way I put up a flag that says "Free Trump." And it will go up, HOA rules be damned.

[Kishkumen]

Weaponization of the justice department against your political opponents is far more despicable and damaging to the trust in America's institutions. And yet my neighbor with a Biden flag and I are friends. We'll see if it stays that way I put up a flag that says "Free Trump." And it will go up, HOA rules be damned.

You call prosecuting actual crimes weaponization because it’s your idol Trump who committed the crimes.

[honorentheos]

I'm curious what you imagine this refers to? The results of the Muller Report? The 2020 Senate Intelligence Committee Was reports? Or whatever the amygdala tickle is that you feel when Trump says, "Russia, Russia, Russia?"

To be clear, the Senate determined there was collusion. You can read about it from primary sources, it's public record.

That was yesterday.

But, no collusion!

- Doc

Brilliant.

It's funny how Trump runs around saying crazy crap about how "Russia, Russia, Russia" was made up and apparently even dudes with JDs buy it.

You can read “Volume 5: Counterintelligence Threats and Vulnerabilities” https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sit ... olume5.pdf.

Key Findings:

The Committee found that the Russian government engaged in an aggressive, multi-faceted effort to influence, or attempt to influence, the outcome of the 2016 presidential election.

WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian influence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort.

The FBI gave the Steele Dossier unjustified credence, based on an incomplete understanding of Steele’s past reporting record. The FBI used the dossier in a FISA application and renewals, and advocated for it to be included in the Intelligence Community Assessment before taking the necessary steps to validate assumptions about Steele’s credibility.

The FBI lacked a formal or considered process for escalating their warnings about the Democratic National Committee (DNC) hack within the organization of the DNC.

The Committee assesses that at least two participants in a June 9, 2016, meeting with Trump Campaign officials, Natalia Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin, have significant connections to the Russian government, including the Russian intelligence services. The Committee, however, found no reliable evidence that information of benefit to the Campaign was transmitted at the meeting, or that then-candidate Trump had foreknowledge of the meeting.

The Committee found no evidence that anyone associated with the Trump Campaign had any substantive private conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the April 27, 2016, Trump speech held at the Mayflower Hotel.

Paul Manafort’s presence on the Trump Campaign and proximity to then-Candidate Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence services to exert influence over, and acquire confidential information on, the Trump Campaign.

George Papadopoulos was not a witting cooptee of the Russian intelligence services, but nonetheless presented a prime intelligence target and potential vector for malign Russian influence.

Russia took advantage of members of the Transition Team’s relative inexperience in government, opposition to Obama Administration policies, and Trump’s desire to deepen ties with Russia to pursue unofficial channels through which Russia could conduct diplomacy.

It's been pretty clear for a long time the only thing that really prevented Trump's family from engaging in the activities that would have sent them to jail was incompetence, not lack of intent. But, "Russia, Russia, Russia".

[honorentheos]

Sorry you feel that way, ceeboo.

No need to apologize. I was pointing out a reality and hoping that you might consider not partaking in the constant personal demonization that millions of American citizens continue to attach to their fellow citizens. You need not land the plane where I think you should, I was just hoping you might consider it.

Hey ceebs,

As a friend, I hope you take this concern you feel to police your own and help land that plane. You may feel that the brush being used to paint here is too broad, but damn if the state of the Republican party didn't pick the color.

[Moksha]

The Supreme Court might rule in favor of Donald Trump and Ajax on Monday, and then all this board's grand eloquence and rationality will be for naught. History can turn on a dime.