Does character still matter in politics?

[Kishkumen]

The Supreme Court might rule in favor of Donald Trump and Ajax on Monday, and then all this board's grand eloquence and rationality will be for naught. History can turn on a dime.

Republicans will start caring?

[yellowstone123]

Thanks again, Kikushmen on the post: It's interesting reading the thoughts of Buckley as he was losing his patience with Gore Vidal. Christopher Hitchens chimes in on the issue on a short Youtube piece. The second one is Noam Chomsky after Buckley's death. He's still Noam Chomsky decades later but seems to think Buckley wasn't so bad compared with the new Neo cons like Cheney and Reagan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1gEfl6WDTk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57mi_RpaZr4

And then Buckley, who I really like, and after all he did and had gone through was tired of life as he explains Charlie Rose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK67jeBJRm0

[ceeboo]

By the way, ceeboo, I still like you

I would have been shocked to learn otherwise - I respect, admire, and like you too (That's the reason I am challenging you in this thread).

I am heated about Trump

I noticed,

but I don’t think people are their politics. It is because I see daylight between people and their voting

I'm not sure when but I will save this in my head and use it in the future - I love it!

I think there is such thing as mass mental illness, which is quite different from individual mental illness. A healthy person, decent person, can participate in mass immorality or psychosis. It is like those people—normal people—who get swept up in a mob’s passion.

I'll have to chew on the idea of mass mental illness for a while, at first look, I can't say that it sounds rational, nor does it ring true - but I will chew on it.

Trumpism is mass mental illness phenomenon. TDS affects his fans and his haters, alike.

Perhaps, but that seems to leave out the millions of American voters who don't love him or hate him - The millions of people that voted for him in the past and will absolutely be voting for him in the 2024 election (for a variety of individual and personal reasons).

[ceeboo]

No need to apologize. I was pointing out a reality and hoping that you might consider not partaking in the constant personal demonization that millions of American citizens continue to attach to their fellow citizens. You need not land the plane where I think you should, I was just hoping you might consider it.

Hey ceebs,

As a friend, I hope you take this concern you feel to police your own and help land that plane. You may feel that the brush being used to paint here is too broad, but damn if the state of the Republican party didn't pick the color.

Hey honor,

By and large, the DNC and the GOP pick the colors - The millions of American citizens don't pick, each of us are forced to use the colors already provided.

To my own, I often speak to them about my personal opinions regarding the corruption, lying, attempted power grabs, and incivility that runs rampant on both sides of our failing two-party system. In addition, I share my thoughts about the ruling class’s desire to fuel division amongst the people. I think they instigate this division amongst the people by design - I think they want this division amongst the people - And perhaps most importantly, I think that tactics used to demonize others is required for this ruling class to continue to rule and thrive.

[Kishkumen]

Perhaps, but that seems to leave out the millions of American voters who don't love him or hate him - The millions of people that voted for him in the past and will absolutely be voting for him in the 2024 election (for a variety of individual and personal reasons).

It takes the hardcore fans to make him relevant. Without the cult, he would have been abandoned some time ago.

[honorentheos]

Hey ceebs,

As a friend, I hope you take this concern you feel to police your own and help land that plane. You may feel that the brush being used to paint here is too broad, but damn if the state of the Republican party didn't pick the color.

Hey honor,

By and large, the DNC and the GOP pick the colors - The millions of American citizens don't pick, each of us are forced to use the colors already provided.

To my own, I often speak to them about my personal opinions regarding the corruption, lying, attempted power grabs, and incivility that runs rampant on both sides of our failing two-party system. In addition, I share my thoughts about the ruling class’s desire to fuel division amongst the people. I think they instigate this division amongst the people by design - I think they want this division amongst the people - And perhaps most importantly, I think that tactics used to demonize others is required for this ruling class to continue to rule and thrive.

That's fair. But I wonder when you engage in politics in a civil way in general, here or elsewhere? Would you entertain discussing what you actually see as the values the Republican party best represents and that you support, for example? Is there something to it besides partisanship in your opinion?

I say that because I think it used to be more about competing values than it is today. Today it's about narrative, pure and simple. And I'd argue if you want to actually effect change, the place isn't to handwave away the partisanship as the problem so much as replace it with something better in your own discussions. Politics at their best are about ideas, vision, values.

[Kishkumen]

I say that because I think it used to be more about competing values than it is today. Today it's about narrative, pure and simple. And I'd argue if you want to actually effect change, the place isn't to handwave away the partisanship as the problem so much as replace it with something better in your own discussions. Politics at their best are about ideas, vision, values.

This sounds right to me.

[Dr Exiled]

...the laptop lie.

I'm curious what you mean by this? That the Trump campaign attempted to portray the existance and content of the laptop as damning of Biden while withholding access to the primary materials? Tucker Carlson, after being one of the only folks to receive said access, saying it was better for Republicans to move on? Or whatever the amygdala tickle is that you feel when Trump says, "51 former spooks lied and said it was Russia when it turned out the laptop was real?"

You realize the original concerns are still available to read directly without filter by, you know, the evil media where you can find out for yourself what the real concerns were. That is if you can swim out from the conservative news riptide you seem to deny getting your information from.

It was called Russian disinformation and turned out to be authentic.

https://jonathanturley.org/2024/06/29/t ... e-obvious/

You and your cohorts here pushed the nonsense and Res called me a putin puppet for not believing the 51 supposed intelligence officers. I get that the enlightened Mormons needed to push nonsense apologetics to protect the less enlightened, but I've left it. I also get that it might have changed the election results and that our supposed intelligence officers and their cabal wanted war with Russia. Heaven forbid the Russians control their resources. Biden, Obama, and Clinton were more reliable for those goals.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

“The laptop is real,’. Well no crap. And Russia amplified* GOP disinformation surrounding the copy of the hard drive given to Giuliani by the shop owner. What are you trying to say here?

- Doc

* You do know the Russians along with other state actors like China and Israel have literal trolls farms dedicated to pushing disinfo, right?

[honorentheos]

I'm curious what you mean by this? That the Trump campaign attempted to portray the existance and content of the laptop as damning of Biden while withholding access to the primary materials? Tucker Carlson, after being one of the only folks to receive said access, saying it was better for Republicans to move on? Or whatever the amygdala tickle is that you feel when Trump says, "51 former spooks lied and said it was Russia when it turned out the laptop was real?"

You realize the original concerns are still available to read directly without filter by, you know, the evil media where you can find out for yourself what the real concerns were. That is if you can swim out from the conservative news riptide you seem to deny getting your information from.

It was called Russian disinformation and turned out to be authentic.

https://jonathanturley.org/2024/06/29/t ... e-obvious/

You and your cohorts here pushed the nonsense and Res called me a putin puppet for not believing the 51 supposed intelligence officers. I get that the enlightened Mormons needed to push nonsense apologetics to protect the less enlightened, but I've left it. I also get that it might have changed the election results and that our supposed intelligence officers and their cabal wanted war with Russia. Heaven forbid the Russians control their resources. Biden, Obama, and Clinton were more reliable for those goals.

Rather than say whatever, here's the actual quote:

It is for all these reasons that we write to say that the arrival on the US political scene of emails purportedly belonging to Vice President Biden’s son Hunter, much of it related to his serving on the Board of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma, has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.

We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case.

If we are right, this is Russia trying to influence how Americans vote in this election, and we believe strongly that Americans need to be aware of this.

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000175 ... 9f9b330000

And as noted up thread the concern around it included the lack of transparency by Rudy and Co. in not sharing the actual files.

That there turned out to be a laptop likely owned by Hunter Biden with pictures of his dick and emails that support him being a sleazy dude isn't relevant to the intended aim of it's release as an attempted October surprise. The sources you totally get your information from being apparently fed by Russian propaganda, I get why you are all in on their butthurt over it not working the way their leak of the DNC emails did in 2016.