Does character still matter in politics?

[Morley]

I’d suggest that not confronting and calling out behaviors like racism is even more damaging, ceeboo.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you? Are you pretending that such a weaponized negative label plastered upon millions of individual American citizens is valid? And that you, the virtuous non-racist, are calling all of them out to prevent all of this damage that you imagine is being caused by these millions of republicans?

Yes. Ceeboo, at the very least, you’re obviously misunderstanding me. I’m not pretending anything. I’m saying that sometimes it is important to call things, ideas, and people out—even if there are millions of folks whom will be made sad and guilty. Dialogue cannot even begin to happen util then. If the Civil Rights Era racist officials, behavior, and laws, had not be called out loudly, often, and with conviction, minorities wouldn’t have the right to vote in the US today. When John Lewis was beaten close to death on the Edmund Pettus Bridge, he had an obligation to call each of his tormentors out.

So yes, depending on the circumstances, negative labels plastered upon millions of individual American citizens can of course be valid, useful, and necessary. How could one not think otherwise?

[Kishkumen]

Here is another baffling example of the pathological dishonesty of former president Trump:

A New York Times report from November 2015 that says Donald Trump's Northern Virginia Trump National Golf Club features a plaque between the 14th and 15th holes honoring a Civil War battle at that precise spot. The inscription, signed by Trump, reads:

“Many great American soldiers, both of the North and South, died at this spot. The casualties were so great that the water would turn red and thus became known as ‘The River of Blood.’ It is my great honor to have preserved this important section of the Potomac River!”

Nice sentiment, small problem: there apparently was no such battle.

The Times checked with various historians in the area who had trouble tying the site of Trump's course to any such event.

“No. Uh-uh. No way. Nothing like that ever happened there,” Richard Gillespie, the executive director of the Mosby Heritage Area Association, told the Times.

Gillespie went on to say the closest thing to what Trump was describing was a battle 11 miles up the river in 1861. “The River of Blood?” he said. “Nope, not there.”

During his campaign, Trump questioned how historians could dispute the battle. "How would they know," he told the Times. "Were they there?"

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/detail ... r-happened

This man fails the test of character in almost everything he does. Don’t vote for him.

Think of it. He lies about history and lies to make himself look good as the supposed savior of a historical site that is not a historical site, all so he can look important and make more money. It is all a lie. He lies about practically everything.

He wants American consumers to pay tariffs and then he lies, telling you the Chinese will pay them, when anyone who understands what a tariff is knows this is wrong.

Either Trump is too ignorant to know how tariffs work, or he is lying to you all. Both options should be disqualifying.

[Moksha]

I’m saying that sometimes it is important to call things, ideas, and people out—even if there are millions of folks whom will be made sad and guilty.

Especially when Trump holds such great potential to smash the wheels of justice and democracy. Besides, it is nice to have a leader who tells the truth.

[ceeboo]

So yes, depending on the circumstances, negative labels plastered upon millions of individual American citizens can of course be valid, useful, and necessary.

To plaster a negative label upon millions of people that you don't know anything about - except that they are republican - is not valid - it is not useful - and it is not necessary.

It is damaging America, and it is dividing Americans. (I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before in this thread) - While I am not suggesting this about you in particular (I know very little about you), I believe this divisive rhetoric (or nasty skill at creating a desired narrative) is intentional, it is divisive, and I believe it is necessary for retaining political power over people and narratives.

How could one not think otherwise?

Quite easy - One would just need to actually think for themselves. One would need to simply reject these ridiculous suggestions. One would need to not allow themselves to be controlled by the fear tactics of others - then, they could take back their freedom to think.

[ceeboo]

Is Ceeboo policing fellow conservatives and Christians over the labels they use to divide people?

- Doc

Good question

You think that was a good question?

I think it was a politically motivated and intentional distraction intended to change the focus of the thread/discussion. These selective attempts to usher in whataboutism is employed to stop/alter/change the topic.

Also, do you think I entered your thread to police you?

[Kishkumen]

You think that was a good question?

I think it was a politically motivated and intentional distraction intended to change the focus of the thread/discussion. These selective attempts to usher in whataboutism is employed to stop/alter/change the topic.

Also, do you think I entered your thread to police you?

Not by any means, ceeboo. I don’t think you entered the thread to police me. I think you are genuinely concerned about me and about political divisiveness.

At the same time, I have experienced in my own life the dehumanization of “librulz,” starting with Limbaugh’s pretty deplorable programming, which was very often on the radio at my mother’s house. I voted straight Republican at the time, and I found him extremely off-putting.

It is really hard to call this stuff out without offending the people who eat it up. Trump was recently caught on video calling his opponent “an old broken-down pile of crap.” That’s the leader of the movement that has destroyed the Republican Party, leading the way and setting the tone. He proceeds, after that, to call Kamala Harris “pathetic.”

If I am offending those who support Trump by asking what happened to make this kind of behavior acceptable, as a genuine question, then I will have a difficult time getting an answer to such a question. Asking it is too upsetting. But I want to be able to say that I find his behavior completely unacceptable. I want those who do find it acceptable to explain themselves. Is that a bridge too far?

[Morley]

So yes, depending on the circumstances, negative labels plastered upon millions of individual American citizens can of course be valid, useful, and necessary.

To plaster a negative label upon millions of people that you don't know anything about - except that they are republican - is not valid - it is not useful - and it is not necessary.

It is damaging America, and it is dividing Americans. (I'm pretty sure I have mentioned this before in this thread) - While I am not suggesting this about you in particular (I know very little about you), I believe this divisive rhetoric (or nasty skill at creating a desired narrative) is intentional, it is divisive, and I believe it is necessary for retaining political power over people and narratives.

How could one not think otherwise?

Quite easy - One would just need to actually think for themselves. One would need to simply reject these ridiculous suggestions. One would need to not allow themselves to be controlled by the fear tactics of others - then, they could take back their freedom to think.

I'm not putting any label on anyone, let alone Republicans. In this discussion, I'm not calling anyone racist. What I am saying is that it is sometimes necessary to label people (yes, even millions of people) who are engaged in reprehensible or evil behavior. I keep pointing out--and you keep ignoring--that the Civil Rights Movement would never have happened had we not done this.

I imagine that you favor what happened with civil rights, but perhaps I'm wrong. If so, I'll change my example to the antebellum South, and what I think was the necessity to label hundreds of thousands of slaveholders as being engaged in evil.

By the way, please cut the BS insults suggesting I'm not thinking for myself, just because I don't agree with you. You snipped a couple of sentences to respond to, without really engaging the whole idea.

[ceeboo]

You think that was a good question?

I think it was a politically motivated and intentional distraction intended to change the focus of the thread/discussion. These selective attempts to usher in whataboutism is employed to stop/alter/change the topic.

Also, do you think I entered your thread to police you?

Not by any means, ceeboo. I don’t think you entered the thread to police me. I think you are genuinely concerned about me and about political divisiveness.

Cool.

It is really hard to call this stuff out without offending the people who eat it up.

This depends, entirely, on who/what you're "calling out." If you're calling about the behavior of an individual, that sounds reasonable to me. Have you seen me challenge you about the countless times you have called out Trump on this board/in this thread?

If you're "calling out" republicans (an enormous number of individual people with a wide variety of personal beliefs and personal reasons that they voted for Trump in 2016, 2020, and will no doubt be voting for him again in 2024) as being people who, for example, "don't care", then you're not standing on rational ground as you "call out" - Rather, you're using ridiculous negative rhetoric that is extremely divisive to an already very divided country.

If I am offending those who support Trump by asking what happened to make this kind of behavior acceptable, as a genuine question, then I will have a difficult time getting an answer to such a question. Asking it is too upsetting. But I want to be able to say that I find his behavior completely unacceptable. I want those who do find it acceptable to explain themselves. Is that a bridge too far?

I don't find the personal behavior of 99% of politicians acceptable (Trump certainly included)- It's not about taking offense - I am not offended - It is about the use of negative rhetoric that is contributing to the damage of America and the divisiveness among Americans - A country that is already very damaged and a country that is already very, very, very divided.

[ceeboo]

By the way, please cut the BS insults suggesting I'm not thinking for myself, just because I don't agree with you.

Projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds.

[Morley]

By the way, please cut the BS insults suggesting I'm not thinking for myself, just because I don't agree with you.

Projection, the mental process by which people attribute to others what is in their own minds.

Where have I suggested that you're not thinking for yourself? On the contrary, I think the ideas you've expressed here are very much your own.