Does character still matter in politics?

[Kishkumen]

Well saying Trump is not a leader is odd, he seen to have done okay for himself in Business and in politics. I get you don't like him, and hate him, but to say he is not a leaders is just off the charts.

We are in a mess, and Trump is certainly not my first pick, but compared Biden and Harris there is really no other choice.

Honestly, do you think Biden has a clue of what he is doing?

Yeah, he is not a leader. His business is mostly centered on his family. The man is no Steve Jobs. He was mostly in real estate, for heaven’s sake. That is not an industry of great leadership. Trump is a highly talented salesman, and that is about it.

His leadership of the GOP has been incredibly poor. He has led his party to some big disappointments. His list of accomplishments is meager, and the GOP’s mode has been primarily obstructionist for some time. Those aren’t great accomplishments that spring from Trump’s fine leadership.

Really, I have no idea what you see in him and his accomplishments as great leadership. He may be a leader, but he is not a good one, and I don’t know of many traditional measurements of leadership he would meet favorably.

Does Biden have a clue what he is doing? Let me put it this way: Biden could have a lot of down times cognitively, but in his good times he could pull from his deep knowledge and experience of years in government. Moreover, he has been able to accomplish positive things for the American people despite Congress being in shambles with a largely dysfunctional majority.

So even if on his bad days he’s kind of out of it, Trump never understood it in the first place. The degree to which Trump has ever been functional as in mentally/emotionally fit is questionable. He has shown time and again that he is uninterested in understanding issues or really solving problems beyond applying the losing ideas of the past that most knowledgeable people know are loser ideas. The degree to which Trump remains capable of carrying out the job of president in the way he is capable and inclined to do is a loss for the country and the globe. The best thing Trump could do for America is mysteriously disappear. Maybe the aliens should abduct him and save us all a world of grief and suffering.

[Doctor Steuss]

I'm going to go out on a limb, that you haven't read any of the books written by members of Trump's White House staff on how easily he is manipulated by the media, wealthy people, foreign heads of state, and celebrities?

Heck, Trump just did a complete 180 last month on his near decade long anti-immigrant dance after having his palms greased by some wealthy donors that rely on... you guessed it... immigrants.

And who can forget his infamous 15 flip-flops in 15 days in November 2016.

I guess if you're going to worship someone, you might as well stick to the tried and true methods, and create a whopper of a myth to accompany the worship.

LOL come on DS....he is a business man and a BS'er, big time.

Absolutely agree 100%.

it is a testimony that opinions are like assholes for sure.

I'll have you know that I'm under a doctor's care for my opinion incontinence. Harrumph.

[canpakes]

Yeah, he is not a leader. His business is mostly centered on his family. The man is no Steve Jobs. He was mostly in real estate, for heaven’s sake. That is not an industry of great leadership. Trump is a highly talented salesman, and that is about it.

Count me in on the list of folks who don’t see ‘making money in real estate’, in and of itself, as a leadership quality. Especially once the write-offs, bankruptcies and fraud court cases are considered.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

*snip*

Did you even read the document you linked?!? Oh my god, Markk!

The literal first paragraph on page two lays it out for you! You said:

The Democrats had 51 high level intelligence folks sign...sign, a document that the LT was not Hunter's but Russian by origin. Not a few, not even a dozen...but 51.
It is truly a mess.

That’s not “splitting hairs.” That’s spectacularly wrong.

- Doc

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Well saying Trump is not a leader is odd, he seen to have done okay for himself in Business and in politics. I get you don't like him, and hate him, but to say he is not a leaders is just off the charts.

We are in a mess, and Trump is certainly not my first pick, but compared Biden and Harris there is really no other choice.

Honestly, do you think Biden has a clue of what he is doing?

Yeah, he is not a leader. His business is mostly centered on his family. The man is no Steve Jobs. He was mostly in real estate, for heaven’s sake. That is not an industry of great leadership. Trump is a highly talented salesman, and that is about it.

His leadership of the GOP has been incredibly poor. He has led his party to some big disappointments. His list of accomplishments is meager, and the GOP’s mode has been primarily obstructionist for some time. Those aren’t great accomplishments that spring from Trump’s fine leadership.

Really, I have no idea what you see in him and his accomplishments as great leadership. He may be a leader, but he is not a good one, and I don’t know of many traditional measurements of leadership he would meet favorably.

Does Biden have a clue what he is doing? Let me put it this way: Biden could have a lot of down times cognitively, but in his good times he could pull from his deep knowledge and experience of years in government. Moreover, he has been able to accomplish positive things for the American people despite Congress being in shambles with a largely dysfunctional majority.

So even if on his bad days he’s kind of out of it, Trump never understood it in the first place. The degree to which Trump has ever been functional as in mentally/emotionally fit is questionable. He has shown time and again that he is uninterested in understanding issues or really solving problems beyond applying the losing ideas of the past that most knowledgeable people know are loser ideas. The degree to which Trump remains capable of carrying out the job of president in the way he is capable and inclined to do is a loss for the country and the globe. The best thing Trump could do for America is mysteriously disappear. Maybe the aliens should abduct him and save us all a world of grief and suffering.

They think Trump’s cantankerous nature and filthy way of talking about his opponents as needed to rally the voters and defeat the Democrats. That’s leadership to them.

It’s pro-wrestling, and utterly lacking for the office of the President. Gross and disappointing.

- Doc

Edit: To whit:

https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/ ... c-7add5b47

Dana White is going to address the RNC right before Trump does. -_-

[Binger]

Dana White is going to address the RNC right before Trump does. -_-

Nobody seemed to mind when Bill Clinton spoke, for example.

Dana White said it himself, he has the wokest trans name and should be given more speaking time. It is great that the RNC is letting a dude with a chick name speak, no?

[Binger]

filthy way of talking about his opponents

So, like a mentor? You voting for this guy?

[Binger]

*snip*

Did you even read the document you linked?!? Oh my god, Markk!

The literal first paragraph on page two lays it out for you! You said:

The Democrats had 51 high level intelligence folks sign...sign, a document that the LT was not Hunter's but Russian by origin. Not a few, not even a dozen...but 51.
It is truly a mess.

That’s not “splitting hairs.” That’s spectacularly wrong.

- Doc

We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by
President Trump’s personal aSorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have
evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the
Russian government played a significant role in this case.

Well, they were wrong as heck. It is not about a split hair, this is election interference by 51 treasonous treasoners.

[canpakes]

*snip*

Did you even read the document you linked?!? Oh my god, Markk!

The literal first paragraph on page two lays it out for you! You said:

The Democrats had 51 high level intelligence folks sign...sign, a document that the LT was not Hunter's but Russian by origin. Not a few, not even a dozen...but 51.
It is truly a mess.

That’s not “splitting hairs.” That’s spectacularly wrong.

- Doc

The letter in question specifically addresses alleged emails and the fact that their provenance isn’t known. It doesn’t address the laptop at all and only mentions the word once in quotes as “laptop op” when talking about information sources. It takes some crazy mental gymnastics to claim that the letter says what Markk claims it does.

On that note:

Are you saying that these 51 intelligence folks the knew it was his laptop and just let the press and folks like you believe it wasn't?

Markk - neither those 51 folks nor tens of millions of other people interpret the letter’s content in that way. The only ones who believe what you’re saying are a set of people pushing an obviously untruthful statement and the folks who heard it and decided to believe that lie.

[yellowstone123]

The original thread title, "When Did Republicans Stop Caring?" morphed into "Does character still matter in politics?"

This tells me that Kish was originally asking when the GOP base stopped caring about their leader's character. I wonder if it's not character they stopped caring about, but reality they don't seem to value. I have heard many people repeat the sentiment that they don't necessarily care about what's true. Many people are aware they are being lied to by right-wing media and remain indifferent. People are surprised to find out what Trump said or did all the time (and end up doubting it) because they don't hear it from their favored sources, and they don't want to hear it. They can (and do) believe whatever they want about Trump's character because they can turn off reality.

As long as the libs are owned, that's all that matters.

Please review the first page again. It started because of a film where William F. Buckley Jr. and Gore Vidal were discussing issues that turned into an argument with unkind things being said by both. I tried to read up on the issue and came to a Magazine that focused on when they got into an argument and the writer was clearly against Buckley (snarling, teeth bared) but was hit by a paywall to view anything further, but there was a enough to copy it. I posted it. Whether this was the incident that the poster saw is not known but it was clear that the poster and the writer for the magazine were not in Buckley's camp.