Trump attempted assassination at Rally Today?! He was bleeding

[Gadianton]

Yes. Given the sparse evidence we have, I think this contradicts the notion that he was a radical right-wing extremist.

Partially true. His donation was to a progressive outlet. There is no indication he was a centrist Biden supporter. The information so far indicates he was drawn to populist rhetoric. Populism is a problem, for this reason.

[ceeboo]

I am very uncomfortable posting at the moment

Unlike Binger, I think that you are incredibly sincere and mean everything you say.

I am sincere - Why do you always attach other people when you are engaging me about something I said? You might consider the optics when you consistently do that. In addition to other things, it reduces you to just another political host on MSNBC that is attempting to paint people you don't know with a negative label. It's no different than the selling of hatred that litters the mainstream media on a daily basis.

I think you are overreacting.

I think you are underreacting - Drastically underreacting.

But do take some time if you need to and come back to it.

I am considering it. Perhaps.

How affected were you when Alex Jones repeatedly called the Sandy Hook shooting a false flag and ignored the myriad of attacks on the victims families?

WTF?

You're pretending that the attempted assassination of the 45th President, and current Presidential candidate, is comparable to the antics of a highly controversial radio guy?

Your scale is broken - your weights are imaginary - and even if you borrowed a scale that functioned, your inability to recognize the difference between five pounds being weighed and five tons being weighed is concerning.

[Kishkumen]

You completely IGNORE the endless direct calls for assassinations and calls for violence and revolution from your side, you just pretend it doesn't exist. Even if you don't act like they do, to your credit, you seem to go along with their messaging.

Yesterday, when I was driving around my Florida town, I saw a black Toyota Tacoma with an almost non-descript grey sticker in the middle of the rear window. I pulled up a little closer to get a look. The top letters read:

ANTIFA HUNTING LICENSE

Hardy, har . . .

Another time I saw a red full size pickup with Arabic that threatened violence on anyone who could read it.

I mean, this “humor” is so common that it doesn’t surprise me, but it always does manage to sicken me.

It takes me back to the first term of George W. Bush. I was waiting to get my haircut in my last Florida hometown, and there was this guy who started to joke about assassinating Bush. I felt physically ill.

And this takes me back to a first date I had at BYU. The young lady I watched the Bush/Clinton debate with was so full of venom and hatred toward Clinton every time she opened her mouth that I made sure this was also our last date. When she later came to introduce me to her fiancée, I genuinely felt for the guy.

All of this is to say that the kind of extremes that lead people to callous hatred, threats of violence, and actual violence, I abhor. And, honestly, I have come to tolerate it from myself and others too much. We have been on this road for some time now, but in my experience it has been a thing that I remember starting to warm up in the 90s.

[Gadianton]

You're pretending that the attempted assassination of the 45th President, and current Presidential candidate, is comparable to the antics of a highly controversial radio guy?

No no no, Ceeboo.

The attempted assassination of the 45th President is comparable to the Sandy Hook shooting; the Sandy Hook shooting being far more chilling, in my opinion, which claimed 28 children.

The comparisons at issue in these conversations is between Right-wing media and online opinion in general and the comments being made about yesterday's event on this board. In other words, comparing how "liberals" on this board are reacting to the event vs. how right-wing media is reacting not only to this event, but how they have reacted in the past to other instances of gun violence.

[Kishkumen]

WTF?

You're pretending that the attempted assassination of the 45th President, and current Presidential candidate, is comparable to the antics of a highly controversial radio guy?

Your scale is broken - your weights are imaginary - and even if you borrowed a scale that functioned, your inability to recognize the difference between five pounds being weighed and five tons being weighed is concerning.

ceeboo, if I may, he is saying that we all need to think about all of the factors contributing to this situation and own up to our complicity in it. Alex Jones is exactly the kind of irresponsible demagogue who contributes to a climate in which callousness to violence and the threat of violence flourish. He is not equating the assassin with Jones. He is blaming the Jones phenomenon for contributing to this climate, and he wants us all to be aware of the connection.

It makes little sense to blame just one person or one side. This is a societal sickness we are all culpable for when we dehumanize others, indulge in conspiracy theories, joke about acts of political violence or hate-fueled violence, or fantasize about acts of violence. Now, Alex Jones is, I would say, more culpable than many of us.

[ceeboo]

When I woke up this morning, I felt like I was swimming in an ocean of total darkness, and no matter where I looked, I couldn't find a source of light. I am very uncomfortable posting at the moment - I am dizzy and can't seem to gather my focus/balance.

Having said that, I will post this while being in total darkness and being personally stunned: As I read this thread, I am very discouraged and saddened. I hope that this thread does not reflect the majority of Americans. If it does, we are all screwed!

I am sorry the world is so dark for you today, ceeboo. And, I am sorry to have contributed to your darkness. I feel great apprehension myself.

I believe you. I absolutely believe that you feel great apprehension.

Now that mutual distrust, mutual hatred, violent rhetoric, and violence have been normalized for too many people

As bad as things were prior to this event, my concern is that things will get worse regarding all of the things you mention above.

it was only a matter of time.

Given the hatred selling that runs rampant across mainstream media (and is then parroted constantly by those consuming it) I also believe that it was not if, but when something like this would happen.

And I doubt this is the end.

Unfortunately, I doubt it as well.

Will there be more attempts on Trump? Attempts on Biden? I dearly hope not.

I don't know.

What do we do to get out of this mess? I don’t know. It doesn’t look like anyone has the will or influence to correct it.

I don't know either, but I am certain that the mess we find ourselves in is huge! If I had to guess, a good starting point would be to stop seeing each other as monsters and begin to take a stand against anyone selling hatred.

If it is any consolation, I still care about you and believe in you, ceebs. I hope we can overlook our other differences.

Thanks! I am 100% certain that you and I can overlook our differences. I am not nearly as certain that the citizens of this country can (or want to).

[Kishkumen]

No no no, Ceeboo.

The attempted assassination of the 45th President is comparable to the Sandy Hook shooting; the Sandy Hook shooting being far more chilling, in my opinion, which claimed 28 children.

The comparisons at issue in these conversations is between Right-wing media and online opinion in general and the comments being made about yesterday's event on this board. In other words, comparing how "liberals" on this board are reacting to the event vs. how right-wing media is reacting not only to this event, but how they have reacted in the past to other instances of gun violence.

Indeed. How many children have lost their lives in the last decade? Any one of these slaughters of innocents was much, much worse than the attempt on Trump. And much more successful in visiting horror on the lives on innocent people. While grieving parents cry out to no avail to see sensible gun laws passed, Republicans pose with their kids brandishing assault rifles for Christmas pictures.

I wish this callousness were not routine in our world, but it most definitely is.

[Gadianton]

School shootings and political rally shootings and theater shootings share some things in common. An individual with severe problems, trivial access to guns, and a need to make a big statement -- to go out with a bang.

The difference is that one is an attack on the most vulnerable and one is an attack on the most secure. It's a totally opposite statement to make. In one example it's scary because it's too easy, in the other example it's scary because it should be too hard.

No doubt our myriad of enemies as a nation watching this are thinking to themselves, "wtf, it's that easy? hmmm"

This at a time when Putin just tried to assassinate a bunch of businessmen in Europe and failed.

[Kishkumen]

As bad as things were prior to this event, my concern is that things will get worse regarding all of the things you mention above.

I join you in that concern.

Given the hatred selling that runs rampant across mainstream media (and is then parroted constantly by those consuming it) I also believe that it was not if, but when something like this would happen.

In would draw special attention to venues in which political
commentary regularly includes the dehumanization of others, tolerance for violence against others, and appeals to negative emotions such as fear and hatred.

I don't know either, but I am certain that the mess we find ourselves in is huge! If I had to guess, a good starting point would be to stop seeing each other as monsters and begin to take a stand against anyone selling hatred.

Please let me know when you are made to feel like a
monster here. Especially if I am the offender. Is there a way to raise genuine political concerns without offending others? I hope so!

Thanks! I am 100% certain that you and I can overlook our differences. I am not nearly as certain that the citizens of this country can (or want to).

I hope everyone prefers votes over bullets, and my recommendation would be to get as many legal votes counted as possible. It would also be helpful if everyone felt their votes would count and result in something positive. It may take some compromise to get that to happen, but that is what our system should be about: voting and compromising, not hating and shooting at each other.

[canpakes]

How affected were you when Alex Jones repeatedly called the Sandy Hook shooting a false flag and ignored the myriad of attacks on the victims families?

WTF?

You're pretending that the attempted assassination of the 45th President, and current Presidential candidate, is comparable to the antics of a highly controversial radio guy?

Your scale is broken - your weights are imaginary - and even if you borrowed a scale that functioned, your inability to recognize the difference between five pounds being weighed and five tons being weighed is concerning.

Was Gad referring to this comment of yours below, which was less directed towards the event itself and more directed to the conversation here that followed:

Having said that, I will post this while being in total darkness and being personally stunned: As I read this thread, I am very discouraged and saddened. I hope that this thread does not reflect the majority of Americans. If it does, we are all fu-ked!

Gad’s question is legit, if uncomfortable.

One point, if I may. I think that Jones telling parents of kids who were shot in the face or killed that they and their children were crisis actors who acted out the whole thing for money, and then inciting his audience of millions to harass and threaten those parents for a decade afterwards qualifies for a stronger word than ‘antics’.