Assassination Attempt - Secret Service - DEI

[Gadianton]

Some of the "circle the arrow" commentary is interesting, like the shock of various commentators over the fact that the unguarded building was well within the range of the AR-15. An AR-15 isn't a sniper rifle. If they're going to properly lock-down an area to guard against a serious assassin using a serious tool, that's going to be one hell of a perimeter.

[honorentheos]

The Senate had a briefing today on it from Homeland Security. By all accounts I've read it was light on answers but essentially confirming the shooter was seen but not engaged effectively about an hour prior to the actual shooting. Word is the briefing only allowed four questions before ending which frustrated folks.

My impression: The breakdown in security is clearly a serious issue that the agencies involved are now attempting to avoid making worse by rushing public responses. It leaves open the legitimate question of how the limited transparency is better than being open given the proliferation of conspiracies and speculation.

What seems likely to me: The shooter was seen outside the perimeter with a rangefinder and reported. Agents and local LEOs lost sight of him and sought to reacquire him but without a high level of urgency. This being likely due to history of folks showing up at Trump rallies with firearms and whatnot all the time so the context wasn't "this is an obvious threat" so much as "procedure needs followed, find him and clear him". The snipers on the roof who apparently had him in sight did not have the rifle obviously in sight and were waiting for reports from the LEOs investigating him. Eyes weren't directly on him confirming a weapon until the one guy popped his head up at the roof, had the rifle pointed at him, at which point the shooter repositions and began firing which the snipers responded to very quickly.

I don't know. Lots of places things fell apart but it also seems like the lack of urgency is a major contributor to folks otherwise following procedures in a scenario where hindsight makes it clear he was a threat but before that, who knows how many other rallies had someone who needed tracked down and cleared for acting suspicious. Thus why I suspect the delay in reporting as the obvious is obvious already - fatal decisions and delays were made that appear avoidable. So I'm personally ok waiting to find out the details.

[ceeboo]

Some of the "circle the arrow" commentary is interesting, like the shock of various commentators over the fact that the unguarded building was well within the range of the AR-15.

Here is a video that talks about that unguarded building and why the Director of the Secret Service said it was unguarded. (about 9 minutes)

Secret Service Director Makes UNBELIEVABLE Excuse for Lack of Snipers on the Roof

https://youtu.be/Qn1mOK-zQFU?si=PotqMavBQL-khF0H

[Res Ipsa]

Why is it reasonable for you to expect one, especially now.

How long does it take the NTSB to come to conclusions about an airplane crash? A presser now would have no function.

Take a step back from trying to find things that look odd to you and think about the problems with telling the public what different actors were supposed to do and what they did wrong. Exactly how much information about the tactics the SS uses to protect the President and others do you want to put into the hands of other folks who decide to take a shot?

Demanding quick action is a recipe for getting bad results Being fully transparent about how the SS protects the President, former President Trump, and others teaches other would be assassins how to succeed.

Why not let people do their jobs? Assassination attempts are rare. This one is kind of a unicorn. On what basis should you have expected a press conference from anyone when it’s doubtful all the facts have been collected? The responsible agency is the SS. The head of that agency has spoken all that needs to be said right now: that security plans have been reviewed, that there were failures by the SS that are being investigated. Why isn’t that both a reasonable and sufficient response for an event less than a week old?

You really should apply for a job in politics.

An attempted assassination of a former US President happened days ago. You don't think the Secret Service or the FBI or somebody in an official capacity can take a few minutes to address the nation?

I have a question. Did you think up this question on your own

I had assistance.

Imagine an everyday American citizen (especially with a name like Ceeboo) wondering why I haven't heard from any federal source yet. I know, I should just keep paying my taxes and shut up.

I’m not doing politics. I would have exactly the same position if Biden had been on the stand.

So, why not talk openly. Who was your help?

There is a manipulative and often effective technique commonly used in politics. The euphemism is managing expectations. A more accurate title would be telling people what they should reasonably expect and then telling them that the government is bad for not meeting those expectations.

Avoiding the manipulation requires a step that the manipulators don’t want you to take. You have to take a step back and ask yourself “What is it reasonable for me to expect under these facts?”

Neither you nor I have experienced an on camera assassination of a president in decades. We have no good track record or precedent we can turn to to help us set reasonable expectations. So, we need to think about what e we should reasonably expect, given the circumstances.

I’m betting that first person to ask your question is a highly motivated political figure, likely MAGA or Maga adjacent. For people who already feel aggrieved by the government, just asking that question, presented as if the demand were perfectly reasonable, will incorporate that into their own expectations without even thinking about it.

If you are asking why can’t the government X, you’ve already taken the bait. There are 330 million of us Ceeboo. In what sense is it reasonable for you to expect the government to speak at the time you want though the specific representative of the specific agency you want?

How many times has the ultimate Boss of the FBI and the SS spoken to the nation about the assassination? The head of the SS has publicly spoken. Why do think it is reasonable for you to make such detailed demands as to who speaks and in which format?

The person who planted this question into the MAGA ecosphere was not interested at all in being informed or transparency. They were interested in setting the expectations for millions of Americans who already feel aggrieved by the government and leveraging that into yet another grievance. Even if the SS held a news conference tomorrow, the same person will claim that the press conference wasn’t enough, demand something else, and leverage that into yet another grievance. That’s how grievance politics works.

I absolutely did not tell you to shut up and pay your taxes. That’s a straw man. What I said is it is incumbent on you, as only one of 330 million citizens, to seriously consider whether your expectations are reasonable.

It’s not a question of whether the government could hold a press conference where all the answers will most assuredly be, we can’t comment on an ongoing investigation. The government could host a party where we all eat pickle sandwiches. That’s not the question. The question is whether it is reasonable to let the SS do its job and know what it is talking about before holding a press conference?

Prediction: this is not the only time you will politically operatives demand all kinds of thing of the SS and Biden and then savage them for not meeting the demand de jute. It is, after all, the silly season.

[honorentheos]

Some of the "circle the arrow" commentary is interesting, like the shock of various commentators over the fact that the unguarded building was well within the range of the AR-15. An AR-15 isn't a sniper rifle. If they're going to properly lock-down an area to guard against a serious assassin using a serious tool, that's going to be one hell of a perimeter.

The supposed perimeter control is insanely poor planning, especially in light of the reports they had stepped up security over threats Iran had plans to assassinate Trump in retaliation for his order to bomb Soleimani. Iran of course denies this and the conspiracy theories get wilder and go deeper...

ETA: To clarify, I very highly doubt Iran was involved in what happened Saturday. It just surprises the hell out of me that the Secret Service was supposedly operating at a higher level of alert with more assigned resources over the intel. What would it have been before then?

[Bret Ripley]

Perhaps I missed it? (I did look)

for what it's worth, Homeland Security has been talking about it. From an interview with Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas that was published yesterday morning:

Mayorkas: "... we are incredibly grateful that former President Trump is OK. There indeed was a failure on Saturday. But the matter is the subject of a criminal investigation by the FBI, as well as the subject of an independent review that the president has commissioned, so I cannot speak to the facts of Saturday's event."

More here: https://www.weku.org/npr-news/2024-07-1 ... sibilities

[ceeboo]

I had assistance.

Imagine an everyday American citizen (especially with a name like Ceeboo) wondering why I haven't heard from any federal source yet. I know, I should just keep paying my taxes and shut up.

So, why not talk openly. Who was your help?

I was being sarcastic. I came up with that question all by myself. I know, hard to believe right. Little old Ceeboo was just kind of wondering why the nation hasn't heard anything days after a former President took a bullet to the head.

[ceeboo]

Perhaps I missed it? (I did look)

for what it's worth, Homeland Security has been talking about it. From an interview with Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas that was published yesterday morning:

Mayorkas: "... we are incredibly grateful that former President Trump is OK. There indeed was a failure on Saturday. But the matter is the subject of a criminal investigation by the FBI, as well as the subject of an independent review that the president has commissioned, so I cannot speak to the facts of Saturday's event."

More here: https://www.weku.org/npr-news/2024-07-1 ... sibilities

Thanks, BR (Good to see you - hope all is well)

[Res Ipsa]

The Senate had a briefing today on it from Homeland Security. By all accounts I've read it was light on answers but essentially confirming the shooter was seen but not engaged effectively about an hour prior to the actual shooting. Word is the briefing only allowed four questions before ending which frustrated folks.

My impression: The breakdown in security is clearly a serious issue that the agencies involved are now attempting to avoid making worse by rushing public responses. It leaves open the legitimate question of how the limited transparency is better than being open given the proliferation of conspiracies and speculation.

What seems likely to me: The shooter was seen outside the perimeter with a rangefinder and reported. Agents and local LEOs lost sight of him and sought to reacquire him but without a high level of urgency. This being likely due to history of folks showing up at Trump rallies with firearms and whatnot all the time so the context wasn't "this is an obvious threat" so much as "procedure needs followed, find him and clear him". The snipers on the roof who apparently had him in sight did not have the rifle obviously in sight and were waiting for reports from the LEOs investigating him. Eyes weren't directly on him confirming a weapon until the one guy popped his head up at the roof, had the rifle pointed at him, at which point the shooter repositions and began firing which the snipers responded to very quickly.

I don't know. Lots of places things fell apart but it also seems like the lack of urgency is a major contributor to folks otherwise following procedures in a scenario where hindsight makes it clear he was a threat but before that, who knows how many other rallies had someone who needed tracked down and cleared for acting suspicious. Thus why I suspect the delay in reporting as the obvious is obvious already - fatal decisions and delays were made that appear avoidable. So I'm personally ok waiting to find out the details.

I don’t think that anything the government says or does will have any effect on the proliferation of conspiracy theories. The last thing the SS should do is make public statements based on incomplete facts. I’m in no rush.

[Moksha]

Conspiracies? Next time it will be the Jewish space lasers. Can God surround Trump with a giant reflective Christian mirror in the nick of time?