LGBT inclusion can tear congregations apart

[huckelberry]

...I really resonated with this progressive inclusive message, but I felt like this was out of place amongst the congregation of boomers...

Not to this boomer! I know you are looking for younger people, but just realize there are plenty of us boomers out there that may look old but think similarly.

Drumdude, it sounds as you are saying that the inclusive congregation has older members and is small because older members are narrow. I think this is missing something. It is the older members who staying and are embracing the changes. This is because they have lived through the social struggles and have matured in outlook. It is likely the the younger members left due to being frightened by the changes and embracing narrow attitudes. It is mostly the conservative groups which are full of young people. I do not think the younger groups will automatically be more inclusive but perhaps that will change looking deeper into the future.

[drumdude]

Not to this boomer! I know you are looking for younger people, but just realize there are plenty of us boomers out there that may look old but think similarly.

Drumdude it sounds as you are saying that the inclusive congregation has older members and is small because older members are narrow. I think this is missing something. It is the older members who staying and are embracing the changes . This is because they have lived through the social struggles and have matured in outlook. It is likely the the younger members left due to being frightened by the changes and embracing narrow attitudes. It is mostly the conservative groups which are full of young people. I do not think the younger groups will automatically be more inclusive but perhaps that will change looking deeper into the future.

Of course there are boomers of all political persuasions, but I live in the south and they are predominantly conservative.

I wasn't in this congregation 10 years ago, but I'm making the assumption that they used to have more numbers based on the size and age of the building. According to one commenter I read during my research "the United Methodist congregations were already on the older side, and these LGBT changes have thinned out an already struggling membership." I read that not as a value judgement about the LGBT changes, but a lament on their effect.

I'm not sure that hypothesis about young people leaving due to being frightened jives with my personal experience. In my Mormon ward, nearly 100% of the boomers were conservative and it was the young families who were bothered by the church's stance on LGBT issues. Most younger people I know avoid churches to avoid the conservative boomer mindset that dominates.

[Marcus]

... In my Mormon ward, nearly 100% of the boomers were conservative and it was the young families who were bothered by the church's stance on LGBT issues...

Oh, I see. Try meeting more non-Mormon boomers and more non-traditional Mormon boomers before setting that stereotype in stone. I'm guessing well over 95% of living Boomers were never Mormon, so your sample size is a little skewed.

[Failed Prophecy]

The message of the pastor and his assistants was overwhelming: “everyone is loved and included period.” It was clear there was an overt undertone of LGBT acceptance. There was a planned lecture discussed about Jesus and Feminism. I really resonated with this progressive inclusive message, but I felt like this was out of place amongst the congregation of boomers.

So I decided to look up what the deal was. The United Methodist church leadership decided to fully embrace LGBT marriage and pastors. And it’s cost them over 25% of their members over the last 5 years.

This is very similar to the story of the Community of Christ. “Going woke” as conservatives critics call it, has profoundly negative consequences. It’s an unfortunate irony that following Christ like this ends up destroying Christian communities.

All of this to say, this is the kind of thing that reinforces the Mormon church’s hardline stance on LGBT issues. They feel like, and with good reason, that if they make major inclusive changes then they will endanger their religion. I think they may very well be correct about that, unfortunately.

So let me get this correct:

• You go to a Methodist congregation and are impressed by the LGBTQ inclusion
• You see lots of Boomers
• You conclude that it's the Boomers that are conservative and are pushing out the young folks

I think you are so ingrained in the Mormon mindset and Mormon social structure that you literally can't see what's in front of your face. Nobody would make that conclusion from the facts you saw.

The dynamic in religions outside of Mormonism is actually just what you saw: the Boomers tend to be more inclusive while the young folks tend to leave the inclusive congregations. One set leaves because they conclude that religion is just a mirror of politics and skip the Sunday morning lecture in favor of more sleep. The other set leaves for a more conservative congregation.

This holds for Judaism and Christianity. Go to a Reformed Judaism Temple or an Episcopal Church (not ACNA) and you will see a group of people who long ago started collecting social security. Then find a group of Hasidic Jews or ACNA Anglicans and you are going to find lots of young people.

[drumdude]

... In my Mormon ward, nearly 100% of the boomers were conservative and it was the young families who were bothered by the church's stance on LGBT issues...

Oh, I see. Try meeting more non-Mormon boomers and more non-traditional Mormon boomers before setting that stereotype in stone. I'm guessing well over 95% of living Boomers were never Mormon, so your sample size is a little skewed.

We're talking about religious boomers here, Marcus. Here are some statistics on their characteristics:




https://www.pewresearch.org/religious-l ... by-boomer/

There are liberal boomers. But in the context of this thread - religious boomers at church - they have some very well defined characteristics. This is pretty obvious to anyone attending church in the American south.

[Failed Prophecy]

By the way, I think Mormonism is on this path too, it's just that Mormons are 20-25 years behind where everyone else is at. So just wait and Mormonism will get inclusive. The real issue for Mormonism is that the only option for the next generation is to leave. If they realize that religion is just mirroring politics, they leave and join their non-believing brothers and sisters who left Christianity. If they decide they want something more conservative, then they have zero options and have to join the first group or leave Mormonism entirely.

[drumdude]

By the way, I think Mormonism is on this path too, it's just that Mormons are 20-25 years behind where everyone else is at. So just wait and Mormonism will get inclusive. The real issue for Mormonism is that the only option for the next generation is to leave. If they realize that religion is just mirroring politics, they leave and join their non-believing brothers and sisters who left Christianity. If they decide they want something more conservative, then they have zero options and have to join the first group or leave Mormonism entirely.

I think this is correct. A ton of what John Dehlin and other progressive Mormons are getting flack for now will be "revealed" to the prophets in 30 years.

DCP and his generation has to die first to make it possible.

[huckelberry]

Drumdude it sounds as you are saying that the inclusive congregation has older members and is small because older members are narrow. I think this is missing something. It is the older members who staying and are embracing the changes . This is because they have lived through the social struggles and have matured in outlook. It is likely the the younger members left due to being frightened by the changes and embracing narrow attitudes. It is mostly the conservative groups which are full of young people. I do not think the younger groups will automatically be more inclusive but perhaps that will change looking deeper into the future.

Of course there are boomers of all political persuasions, but I live in the south and they are predominantly conservative.

I wasn't in this congregation 10 years ago, but I'm making the assumption that they used to have more numbers based on the size and age of the building. According to one commenter I read during my research "the United Methodist congregations were already on the older side, and these LGBT changes have thinned out an already struggling membership." I read that not as a value judgement about the LGBT changes, but a lament on their effect.

I'm not sure that hypothesis about young people leaving due to being frightened jives with my personal experience. In my Mormon ward, nearly 100% of the boomers were conservative and it was the young families who were bothered by the church's stance on LGBT issues. Most younger people I know avoid churches to avoid the conservative boomer mindset that dominates.

Not to be too specific but do you mean south as in St. George or south as in Atlanta or Charleston? I do not know how much difference the regions make. I think you are correct that the issue is tearing congregations apart and I have no crystal ball telling me how that will be working out. I remain in disappointed shock over what the past ten years has revealed.

I am not sure what I did to YouTube but it keeps bringing up for me to consider presentations by young Christians condemning the terrible woke influence of liberal Christians.

[drumdude]

I am not sure what I did to YouTube but it keeps bringing up for me to consider presentations by young Christians condemning the terrible woke influence of liberal Christians.

Yuck. Maybe my generation (millennials) is more progressive than the younger generations (Gen Z and upcoming Gen A).

[MG 2.0]

You can find it. Looking within mainstream congregations that exclude is not a likely place to find it.

Yes but in practice the most inclusive congregations seem to be struggling. I’ve looked at Community of Christ, and now this Methodist church. There is a shocking lack of young families. Especially after I was in the Mormon church so long, where young families were half or more of the congregation.

They still are. I can’t speak for other churches, but the LDS Church seems to be doing very well with young families that are attending church regularly. That bodes well.

Regards,
MG