What is a spiritual experience?

[Dr. Shades]

My most profound spiritual experiences have been tied to music, whether listening, singing, or playing the piano. I truly believe that music is a universal language. It can mean so many things to so many different people.

Your most profound spiritual experience WASN'T when your deceased mother visited you in spirit form after her passing?

[Jesse Pinkman]

My most profound spiritual experiences have been tied to music, whether listening, singing, or playing the piano. I truly believe that music is a universal language. It can mean so many things to so many different people.

Your most profound spiritual experience WASN'T when your deceased mother visited you in spirit form after her passing?

It was my deceased Grandmother, not deceased mother. And, there was still a musical tie. She wanted my brother and I to sing 2 specific musical pieces at the funeral, which we did. My entire family is very musically inclined. It is how we celebrate, commiserate, and is what continues to bind us. I’ve continued that tradition with my children and grandchildren.

[IWMP]

This sounds like an interesting discussion. I haven't managed to read everything.

I think, I was probably more spiritual as a child. When following intuition and with innocence. I think there are different levels and types of spiritual experience. And I think I personally associate that innocent, unknowing feeling with spirituality. Like a meditative state. But then there are moments my mum has described that sound like spiritual experiences where she was seriously ill and seeing lights and having psychic experiences but then I think, is that a spiritual experience or is it just a heightened state?

I struggled in church because often people would talk about feeling the spirit and I struggled to feel much of anything but later realised I had dissociation so I didn't exactly have a chance to feel the spirit. But strangely, nostalgia carries a little essence of spiritual feelings for me. So looking back on my time in church, although I know I didn't feel the spirit, I do get a sense that my life was more spiritual then than it is now and I expect that I will look back in another decade and feel this time is more spiritual. I think as a child, I believed in God and didn't have doubts, I became a teen and started looking at what god meant and then struggling with doubt in the church but still believing in God and then I went through a period where I stopped praying but still believed and then I sort of felt like I lost faith almost completely and felt alone I'm the world and I think I have found some faith again so my levels of spirituality if you will have decreased over time.

But then there is another aspect that creates the spiritual feelings and that is connecting with nature. And realising the beauty around us. Like higher thinking. Can't remember the philosopher, I want to say kant, probably spelled wrong. Who talked about art and things being higher thinking.

I have had spiritual feelings while praying but the one strong memory was a little more than praying. I had endometriosis although I didn't know it at the time. All I knew was that during my period I was in excruciating pain. I was in tears curled up on my side. I prayed and I thought of Jesus feeling the pain and I imagined myself laying on a floating concrete thing and visualised it rising to the sun and could feel the heat and light on me as I imagined the sun healing me and soothing me and then I fell asleep. It was a much needed sleep and it was probably one of the stronger spiritual experiences I can thing of.

Anyway

My point is I think there are different types of spiritual experience.

Nature/beauty
Meditations
Experiencing higher levels of cognition
Religious euphoria
Intuition
Probably some kind of chemical/endorphin thing

[IWMP]

On an old Terrestrial thread, Philo Sofee posed the question: What is spiritual? I hope my old reply will work to answer the question posed in this new OP.

What is Spiritual?

Spiritual is what happens when leave your books, your bills, your worries and your concerns, and all the trappings of the material world behind. It is cellular, systemic and it is transcendent. Spiritual is what you drink in with the roots of your senses and the feelings of exhilaration, delight, and wonderment that fill you up.

It's when you walk into the mountains and suddenly see a falcon soaring overhead and wish that you could do it. It's when you come upon a field of Indian Paintbrush, Lamberts Loco, Lupine, Pentstemon, and if you're lucky, spicy blue Columbine planted by no one and feel like it exists just for you. It's the sound that the wind makes when it rushes through the Aspens in Fall. It's the sweet smell of pines when the sun hits them.

It's sitting on the beach after the crowds go home. Where the only sounds you hear are the sounds of the waves and gulls looking for left overs and the only smell is the smell of salt. It's when you immerse your body in the ocean and baptize yourself in it's waters. It's when you walk along the shoreline and the excitement you feel when the ocean delivers it's treasures right to your feet, and you stuff your pockets full of them to take home so you never forget the fullness of the experience.

It's when you stand outside at night far away from city lights and look up. It's that moment when you forget what stars are made of and the sight of the Milky Way takes your breath away and you stand there for hours waiting for the next meteor to race across the night sky again. It's when you wait for August to come so you can see the Perseid Meteor Shower because you know you're going to get the show of your life and how you feel when you get it.

It's the anticipation of the waiting game that begins when the first snows come and put Earth to sleep. It's how you drive down a country road on what feels like the coldest most desolate night of the year and your eyes light up when you catch sight of the Northern Lights dancing on the horizon. It's how you wait as patiently as you can for Earth to wake up again and the exhilarating sense of hope you feel when you see the snow melt to reveal the greened landscape that you waited so long for.

Spiritual is what you take in with your senses and lands in the place where your heart and your mind meet, to grow your soul.

Spiritual is the feeling you have when lyou ook into the sparkling blue eyes of a little girl and being determined to give her all of these things before you leave because you know you will leave. To put her in dirt, in water, to let her run wild in the forest, to show her how to plant seeds, smell trees and examine sea shells, to know the birds by their calls and how to tell what they eat by their beaks and where they live, that wildflowers planted by no one have names, and teach her remember to always look up until she does it without thinking. Because you know that if she has that, you have given her everything she needs to grow her soul.

It's a sense that something is bigger than you are.

And it feels like you feel when you see this:

.

<3

[IWMP]

I don’t think there is any biological distinction between awe a spiritual experience. I think the distinction is cultural and linguistic. I grew up in a culture that interpreted a type of emotion as the spirit of God. My culture not only told me that this spiritual experience was real, but also told me how to have the experience.

I’m reminded of an episode of Invisibilia from a few years back about a married couple of anthropologists who lived with a tribe of headhunters in the Philippines. The tribe had a word for an emotional state that had no counterpart in English. They described it as “the thing that makes us want to take a head.” https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... -in-a-word

I still experience the same emotions that my brain once identified as “the spirit” even though I no longer believe in a God or a spirit. The same emotions can be produced by electrically stimulating my brain. Had I not been raised in a culture that singled out a subset of “awe” as beings contented with a God and with a language that differentiates between spirit of God and awe, I suspect that I would experience any distinction at all.

Had an image of someone using a tens machine on their brain to create spiritual experience lol.

If feeling the spirit is the same as feeling awe, then does that mean that those feeling the spirit are in awe of the church? When I went to EFY and it was the testimony meeting and everyone was in tears but I didn't feel the spirit, I could say I was in awe of the others and how moved they were and the stories they shared but I still didn't feel the spirit or any enlightment. My perspective of what I expected the spirit to feel like is probably what I visualise how I felt as a child alone in my room feeling strange. I hallucinated from a very young age (pre/post sleep) and I vividly recall believing that I saw heaven looking out the window but I know and even doubted at the time but I still remember the strong feelings of peace and like wow. I was light and airy with lots of pastel colours, probably more colourful than life in some ways and like rainbows as if there are crystals everywhere. Not exactly but that's the best I can describe it.

I guess I was in awe of that visualisation. I do think you are right but I do think there is more to it from my experience.

I don't think I have ever been able to deliberately choose to feel the spirit.

[huckelberry]

I don’t think there is any biological distinction between awe a spiritual experience. I think the distinction is cultural and linguistic. I grew up in a culture that interpreted a type of emotion as the spirit of God. My culture not only told me that this spiritual experience was real, but also told me how to have the experience.

I’m reminded of an episode of Invisibilia from a few years back about a married couple of anthropologists who lived with a tribe of headhunters in the Philippines. The tribe had a word for an emotional state that had no counterpart in English. They described it as “the thing that makes us want to take a head.” https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... -in-a-word

I still experience the same emotions that my brain once identified as “the spirit” even though I no longer believe in a God or a spirit. The same emotions can be produced by electrically stimulating my brain. Had I not been raised in a culture that singled out a subset of “awe” as beings contented with a God and with a language that differentiates between spirit of God and awe, I suspect that I would experience any distinction at all.

Had an image of someone using a tens machine on their brain to create spiritual experience lol.

If feeling the spirit is the same as feeling awe, then does that mean that those feeling the spirit are in awe of the church? When I went to EFY and it was the testimony meeting and everyone was in tears but I didn't feel the spirit, I could say I was in awe of the others and how moved they were and the stories they shared but I still didn't feel the spirit or any enlightment. My perspective of what I expected the spirit to feel like is probably what I visualise how I felt as a child alone in my room feeling strange. I hallucinated from a very young age (pre/post sleep) and I vividly recall believing that I saw heaven looking out the window but I know and even doubted at the time but I still remember the strong feelings of peace and like wow. I was light and airy with lots of pastel colours, probably more colourful than life in some ways and like rainbows as if there are crystals everywhere. Not exactly but that's the best I can describe it.

I guess I was in awe of that visualisation. I do think you are right but I do think there is more to it from my experience.

I don't think I have ever been able to deliberately choose to feel the spirit.

I was a bit puzzled but curious about Res Ipsa's post. I may have been diverted by feeling very sure that there was a lot more to "feeling like taking a head" than physical sensation and a word for it. I was curious but ignorant of whether this was war revenge? ,eagerness for superiority in violence? gaining power by taking from a victim?:was it a religious thing with sacrifice in view ? is an attack on the outrageous imposition upon life that death is? Naming the feeling told me nothing.

But of course that is part of Res Ipsa point we all live in culture which provides explanations and meaning to feelings we have. We are taught some things can be called spiritual and that in our culture is so broad that many things get included. Is any of that from God? It is certainly not clear. Obviously anything that is experienced by a human is as experience a human biological function. Feelings or visions or awe are human mental, nerve, processes whether initiated by music or God. If a machine can cause people to have sensations like what some might call spiritual that might tell me something about human biology but tells me nothing about whether God touches people in a special way at times.

If God slaps me upside the head telling me it is time for me to stop being so self centered the experience takes place in my nervous system but I understand it as from God because I realize the message is valuable.(and for whatever reason it felt like an authority not to be taken lightly)

I hesitate but will say it . I think it is possible the Mormon instruction on feeling the spirit may confuses the matter making it more difficult to notice the spirit by pushing people to focus on emotions unrelated . I say this only because I think it is worthwhile to question ones assumptions about the spirit.I do not claim to have sure knowledge on the matter and am sure I have had nice feelings that I hoped were from God but may well have had much more mundane sources.

One line of thought might be that we all have a subconscious awareness and connection with God and a spiritual dimension to our lives with others. A variety of experiences make us aware of that connection and that awareness causes emotions and feelings we are inclined to call spiritual.

[MG 2.0]

Had an image of someone using a tens machine on their brain to create spiritual experience lol.

If feeling the spirit is the same as feeling awe, then does that mean that those feeling the spirit are in awe of the church? When I went to EFY and it was the testimony meeting and everyone was in tears but I didn't feel the spirit, I could say I was in awe of the others and how moved they were and the stories they shared but I still didn't feel the spirit or any enlightment. My perspective of what I expected the spirit to feel like is probably what I visualise how I felt as a child alone in my room feeling strange. I hallucinated from a very young age (pre/post sleep) and I vividly recall believing that I saw heaven looking out the window but I know and even doubted at the time but I still remember the strong feelings of peace and like wow. I was light and airy with lots of pastel colours, probably more colourful than life in some ways and like rainbows as if there are crystals everywhere. Not exactly but that's the best I can describe it.

I guess I was in awe of that visualisation. I do think you are right but I do think there is more to it from my experience.

I don't think I have ever been able to deliberately choose to feel the spirit.

I was a bit puzzled but curious about Res Ipsa's post. I may have been diverted by feeling very sure that there was a lot more to "feeling like taking a head" than physical sensation and a word for it. I was curious but ignorant of whether this was war revenge? ,eagerness for superiority in violence? gaining power by taking from a victim?:was it a religious thing with sacrifice in view ? is an attack on the outrageous imposition upon life that death is? Naming the feeling told me nothing.

But of course that is part of Res Ipsa point we all live in culture which provides explanations and meaning to feelings we have. We are taught some things can be called spiritual and that in our culture is so broad that many things get included. Is any of that from God? It is certainly not clear. Obviously anything that is experienced by a human is as experience a human biological function. Feelings or visions or awe are human mental, nerve, processes whether initiated by music or God. If a machine can cause people to have sensations like what some might call spiritual that might tell me something about human biology but tells me nothing about whether God touches people in a special way at times.

If God slaps me upside the head telling me it is time for me to stop being so self centered the experience takes place in my nervous system but I understand it as from God because I realize the message is valuable.(and for whatever reason it felt like an authority not to be taken lightly)

I hesitate but will say it . I think it is possible the Mormon instruction on feeling the spirit may confuses the matter making it more difficult to notice the spirit by pushing people to focus on emotions unrelated . I say this only because I think it is worthwhile to question ones assumptions about the spirit.I do not claim to have sure knowledge on the matter and am sure I have had nice feelings that I hoped were from God but may well have had much more mundane sources.

One line of thought might be that we all have a subconscious awareness and connection with God and a spiritual dimension to our lives with others. A variety of experiences make us aware of that connection and that awareness causes emotions and feelings we are inclined to call spiritual.

I think you are very close to the truth. I was listening to a podcast on the way back from Missouri this week as we chose to go back there (to visit a son and his wife and a couple of grandkids) by car rather than by plane so that we could see the country rather than fly over it. It’s a large country!

Anyway, this academic in his discussion with Michael Shermer takes a middle position on those “feelings we are inclined to call spiritual”. So MANY people of all different backgrounds experience these things that we ought to give them more serious consideration according to Kripal.

https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer ... verything/

Well worth the time to take a listen.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

I think you are very close to the truth. I was listening to a podcast on the way back from Missouri this week as we chose to go back there (to visit a son and his wife and a couple of grandkids) by car rather than by plane so that we could see the country rather than fly over it. It’s a large country!

Anyway, this academic in his discussion with Michael Shermer takes a middle position on those “feelings we are inclined to call spiritual”. So MANY people of all different backgrounds experience these things that we ought to give them more serious consideration according to Kripal.

https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer ... verything/

Well worth the time to take a listen.

Regards,
MG

I was on the stand for a Conference where a General Authority was the final speaker. Lots of the congregation were moved to strong feelings of upliftment. Lots of the congregation had tears in their eyes. Many people declared being moved more strongly than they had ever previously experienced. Was that an example of a spiritual experience?

On what basis is Kripal an authority on the Mormon idea of a spiritual experience? From your link…

From precognitive dreams and telepathic visions to near-death experiences, UFO encounters, and beyond, so-called impossible phenomena are not supposed to happen. But they do happen—all the time. Jeffrey J. Kripal asserts that the impossible is a function not of reality but of our everchanging assumptions about what is real.

UFOs…really?

What sensational qualities do spiritual experiences have, that are absent from emotional experiences?

[MG 2.0]

I think you are very close to the truth. I was listening to a podcast on the way back from Missouri this week as we chose to go back there (to visit a son and his wife and a couple of grandkids) by car rather than by plane so that we could see the country rather than fly over it. It’s a large country!

Anyway, this academic in his discussion with Michael Shermer takes a middle position on those “feelings we are inclined to call spiritual”. So MANY people of all different backgrounds experience these things that we ought to give them more serious consideration according to Kripal.

https://www.skeptic.com/michael-shermer ... verything/

Well worth the time to take a listen.

Regards,
MG

I was on the stand for a Conference where a General Authority was the final speaker. Lots of the congregation were moved to strong feelings of upliftment. Lots of the congregation had tears in their eyes. Many people declared being moved more strongly than they had ever previously experienced. Was that an example of a spiritual experience?

On what basis is Kripal an authority on the Mormon idea of a spiritual experience? From your link…

From precognitive dreams and telepathic visions to near-death experiences, UFO encounters, and beyond, so-called impossible phenomena are not supposed to happen. But they do happen—all the time. Jeffrey J. Kripal asserts that the impossible is a function not of reality but of our everchanging assumptions about what is real.

UFOs…really?

What sensational qualities do spiritual experiences have, that are absent from emotional experiences?

Kripal’s work simply demonstrates that the numbers of people that have experiences that seemingly go beyond the mundane is much larger than a skeptic might think. What these experiences actually are is something that he suggests we have an open mind to rather than simply rejecting at face value.

My point is that the experiences of Latter-day Saints should not be simply disregarded by those that have not had similar experiences and have described those experiences as having come through the Holy Ghost. That determination should be left solely to the individual.

That is the position that I think Kripal would take rather than simply rejecting those experiences as you seem to do in your comments.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

I was on the stand for a Conference where a General Authority was the final speaker. Lots of the congregation were moved to strong feelings of upliftment. Lots of the congregation had tears in their eyes. Many people declared being moved more strongly than they had ever previously experienced. Was that an example of a spiritual experience?

You appear to have ignored this question.

On what basis is Kripal an authority on the Mormon idea of a spiritual experience? From your link…UFOs…really?

Kripal’s work simply demonstrates that the numbers of people that have experiences that seemingly go beyond the mundane is much larger than a skeptic might think.

No. Kripal’s work shows that the number of people claiming supernatural contact is commonplace outside of Mormonism’s idea that you need to abide by Mormonism’s rules to be worthy of spirituality.

What these experiences actually are is something that he suggests we have an open mind to rather than simply rejecting at face value.

So you have an open mind to the idea that these experiences are emotionally self generated?

My point is that the experiences of Latter-day Saints should not be simply disregarded by those that have not had similar experiences and have described those experiences as having come through the Holy Ghost. That determination should be left solely to the individual.

that's how affinity fraud thrives. An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof if it is to be believed by a reasonable person.

That is the position that I think Kripal would take rather than simply rejecting those experiences as you seem to do in your comments.

But you reject any experience that others have had that flies contrary to what it is you have pre determined to believe. Will we be seeing a much more open minded MG 2.0 going forward as a result of your learnings from Kripal? I think that’s highly unlikely. But we shall see…

What sensational qualities do spiritual experiences have, that are absent from emotional experiences?

You appear to have ignored this question. Has Kripal not covered this?