Is the Book of Mormon Divinely Inspired?

[I Have Questions]

Then tell me why the mistakes people made when producing the KJV Bible in the 17th century appear verbatim in The Book of Mormon which is claimed to have been written 1,348 years earlier…

I’ve expressed some thoughts/opinions…but I don’t know the answer to this question.

Of course you do. It’s obvious how they got there. However, even if we put the “how” to one side, the fact that they are in there unequivocally disproves the claim that The Book of Mormon is a translation of ancient gold plates. It’s irrefutable.

[huckelberry]

Mg, if there is anything of interest in this you could provide a quick summary. I am put off and need encouragement. first "its either them or us" is so shallow and unlikely that it is a real put off. I started this link but quit rather early. It seems like Jacob is arguing with 7th grade evangelicals who are unfamiliar with apocrapha. empty.

The video talks about missing and corrupted scripture and the relationship of that to the Book of Mormon and its teachings, along with what Book of Mormon prophets said in regards to this. I’m not wanting to get into a full blown discussion in regards to this ‘thread’ of scholarship in Book of Mormon studies as it relates to the Bible and Apocryphal connections.

It’s just something else to throw out there and consider for those that are interested.

I’m posting this as another resource as one looks at ‘evidences’ for the divine hand in the Book of Mormon.

Regards,
MG

I watched a bit more and they were talking about how Christians downplay the temple. I do not see it that way. I think the churches especially central ones like cathedrals are the same as temples. I know Mormons add extra activities and selective entrance to the buildings they designate temples. I think the Book of Mormon, subject here, speaks of temples but they are places of teaching where all sorts of people can receive instruction like in Christian churches. In Christian churches the central ordinances are done , teaching is done, and praise and prayer are done.

[MG 2.0]

Bump

I’ve expressed some thoughts/opinions…but I don’t know the answer to this question.

What I do know is that there are other things going on in the Book of Mormon that critics have not had satisfactory responses to. Stylometry, Chiasmus, complex narrative, shadows and reflections of the ancient world, additional archeological/linguistic evidences discovered over the years, etc.

And yes, I know that, for you and others, you think these ‘evidences’ are either happen chance, Joseph’s mileu and/or upbringing, or conscious desire to defraud. Or the pious fraud theory.

Those views don’t add up and give adequate reason for the totality of the picture in my opinion.

But I suppose you’ll keep coming back and beating a dead horse and asking me to rinse and repeat.

Did you at one time have a belief/testimony in the Book of Mormon? Was it both spiritually and intellectually based or was it just one or the other?

Regards,
MG

IHQ: It’s obvious how they got there. However, even if we put the “how” to one side, the fact that they are in there unequivocally disproves the claim that The Book of Mormon is a translation of ancient gold plates.

I don’t think so, for reasons already mentioned but ignored.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

I’ve expressed some thoughts/opinions…but I don’t know the answer to this question.

What I do know is that there are other things going on in the Book of Mormon that critics have not had satisfactory responses to. Stylometry, Chiasmus, complex narrative, shadows and reflections of the ancient world, additional archeological/linguistic evidences discovered over the years, etc.

And yes, I know that, for you and others, you think these ‘evidences’ are either happen chance, Joseph’s mileu and/or upbringing, or conscious desire to defraud. Or the pious fraud theory.

Those views don’t add up and give adequate reason for the totality of the picture in my opinion.

But I suppose you’ll keep coming back and beating a dead horse and asking me to rinse and repeat.

Did you at one time have a belief/testimony in the Book of Mormon? Was it both spiritually and intellectually based or was it just one or the other?

Regards,
MG

IHQ: It’s obvious how they got there. However, even if we put the “how” to one side, the fact that they are in there unequivocally disproves the claim that The Book of Mormon is a translation of ancient gold plates.

I don’t think so, for reasons already mentioned but ignored.

Regards,
MG

Do you think the mistakes made in the 17th Century KJV Bible production, were on the gold plates? Simple yes or no.

[MG 2.0]

I don’t think so, for reasons already mentioned but ignored.

Regards,
MG

Do you think the mistakes made in the 17th Century KJV Bible production, were on the gold plates? Simple yes or no.

On the gold plates? No.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

IHQ, you’ve ignored me twice now.

What I do know is that there are other things going on in the Book of Mormon that critics have not had satisfactory responses to. Stylometry, Chiasmus, complex narrative, shadows and reflections of the ancient world, additional archeological/linguistic evidences discovered over the years, etc.

When you look at these things as a whole…do you think a nineteenth century somewhat illiterate farmboy wrote the Book of Mormon?

You’re putting all your eggs in one basket.

Answer the question.

Regards,
MG

[Markk]

MG wrote...Honestly, I think it is going to be difficult to try and convince a non believer that used to believe that prophets and apostles have been integral in establishing the church and Kingdom (upper case) of God.

Well I can say the same thing in reverse. It is hard to convince a believing member problems with their faith. I also can say we can somewhat objectively test the premise of whys the church teaches they need apostles and prophets and see if they have meet those standards.

Given the 15 are ordained prophets, seers, and revelators....do they do such? And when they did does it stand the test of time.

MG wrote...
One example among many. The fact that temples are being built throughout the world along with an increased emphasis on family history work is not a coincidence.

Temples being built around the is done because they have money, and lots of it. And the folks our providing family history the same as when I was a member and before, only the technologies have changed. I don't see how that is a proof for the needs of a continuing of prophets, seers, that do not do what their titles suggest, and demand. Or how they are a special witness for Christ vs. the average faithful missionary or member.

MG wrote...The two go hand in hand. And from the perspective of believing members this work provides salvation/exaltation opportunities for all of God’s children.

Well, and that is a fundamental difference between LDS theology and Christian theology, God provides salvation via His Grace and the believers heart, not by opportunities by LDS prophets and apostles and the temples they build, and because of family history provide by people and computers

MG wrote...
I think I’ve already described my thinking in regards to the Christian world (the body) and how everything fitly framed together results in ‘God’s work’ and yes, kingdom (lower case simply to differentiate) on the earth.

Whether or not you see the need for prophets and apostles is your own thing. But as long as your path takes you on a journey with Christ I think you are ‘for Him’ and not against Him. In that sense we’re on the same team.

Well, that is just a cryptic talking point of saying if you believe in Christ and are a good person you will have a estate in a lower heaven apart from their HF's presence. While those faithful to the church will and found worthy will gain presence to their HF and become Gods.

Also it ignores the fact that current LDS canon teaches otherwise, that they are the church of the Lamb, while all other churches are the church of the Devil, and our beliefs are an abomination and we only give lip service. Do you believe your standard works when they teach these sort of things against to days Christian theology and people?

MG wrote...
The thing to remember, as I’ve already stated, is that there other teams in the game (of life) and they also have certain permissions and privileges inherent in their callings. Some/many of these teams part of one system or another that are not Christian.

Same with non believers.

In the end we will all be judged according to our works. With the caveat that at that great day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. That is, from the perspective and beliefs of those that belong to the CofJCofLDS.

What does that mean? How does that relate to the plan of eternal progression?

Are you saying that IYO that in the end all will be judged according to the "perspectives and beliefs" of members of the church? Please expound on that on, I don't think I have heard that one before. Or are you saying according to LDS theology?






.

[Marcus]

MG wrote...
The thing to remember, as I’ve already stated, is that there other teams in the game (of life) and they also have certain permissions and privileges inherent in their callings. Some/many of these teams part of one system or another that are not Christian.

Same with non believers.

In the end we will all be judged according to our works. With the caveat that at that great day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. That is, from the perspective and beliefs of those that belong to the CofJCofLDS.

What does that mean? How does that relate to the plan of eternal progression?

Are you saying that IYO that in the end all will be judged according to the "perspectives and beliefs" of members of the church? Please expound on that on, I don't think I have heard that one before. Or are you saying according to LDS theology?

Markk, it might be helpful to read what he wrote before he toned it down after being challenged:

...Preeminent in LDS doctrine is that God is God and we are His children. God gives ‘permissions’ for His children to act in His name. It all boils down to what permissions have been given to whom. My belief is that the ‘permissions’ given to the CofJCofLDS are of a different nature…calling, you might say…than other churches and belief systems.

there is more in his post at the above link, but in my opinion, he answered your question in the part I bolded.

[Markk]

What does that mean? How does that relate to the plan of eternal progression?

Are you saying that IYO that in the end all will be judged according to the "perspectives and beliefs" of members of the church? Please expound on that on, I don't think I have heard that one before. Or are you saying according to LDS theology?

Markk, it might be helpful to read what he wrote before he toned it down after being challenged:

...Preeminent in LDS doctrine is that God is God and we are His children. God gives ‘permissions’ for His children to act in His name. It all boils down to what permissions have been given to whom. My belief is that the ‘permissions’ given to the CofJCofLDS are of a different nature…calling, you might say…than other churches and belief systems.

there is more in his post at the above link, but in my opinion, he answered your question in the part I bolded.

Hey Marcus,

It does not make sense to me in that according to LDS theology. I know of no LDS teaching that God gives different permissions of any sorts to different bodies of faith.

Everything according to Mormon thought is based on eternal law and all blessings predicated on these laws. And all blessing must be earned. These eternal laws are eternal truths and it would mean their are different truths for different peoples. It reads almost as a Calvinist argument of election of sort with difference churches and peoples given lesser truths based on his sovereign will.

Does that make sense?

[Marcus]

Markk, it might be helpful to read what he wrote before he toned it down after being challenged:

there is more in his post at the above link, but in my opinion, he answered your question in the part I bolded.

Hey Marcus,

It does not make sense to me in that according to LDS theology. I know of no LDS teaching that God gives different permissions of any sorts to different bodies of faith.

Everything according to Mormon thought is based on eternal law and all blessings predicated on these laws. And all blessing must be earned. These eternal laws are eternal truths and it would mean their are different truths for different peoples. It reads almost as a Calvinist argument of election of sort with difference churches and peoples given lesser truths based on his sovereign will.

Does that make sense?

I think 'different permissions' is a way to obfuscate the superiority some Mormons seem to maintain. And yes, I was with you on your explanation right up until this:

"These eternal laws are eternal truths and it would mean their are different truths for different peoples."

I've been out a while but my understanding is slightly different in that in my opinion they think 'eternal truths' are the same for everyone, and the 'eternal truths,' by definition, mean the Mormon church is the correct path and all other paths are lesser. I did not hear 'different truths for different peoples' except in the sense that if different people believed different truths it was because they were wrong and would eventually have to accept the Mormon version to progress eternally. That's my objection to labeling Mormons Christians, because they basically believe they are the only real Christians, and everyone one else is doing it wrong. To me, that puts the power into the institution instead of into the hands of god.