Historicity of _American Primeval_

[Rivendale]

AAARGH!!! >:-( >:-( >:-(

Would it have killed you to type "Spoiler alert" before typing all of those spoilers??

Shades, I'm sorry that you had the movie spoiled for you. I'm not going to apologize though for not posting 'spoiler alert'.

Quite often I record sports events on TV to watch later in the evening. When I sit down to watch later with my Coors original and my laptop for surfing the Mormon boards, I am careful not to click on any news sites, or whatever, that might by chance give away the game results. That is on me to do. If you have not yet watched a movie then I think that it is on you to not click on a thread discussing the movie, and not just rely on there not being an un-thoughtful dolt who forgets to post 'spoiler alert'.

I do the same thing with sports recordings. And ignore all threads regarding movies I want to see. Seems pretentious to blame someone for for not self screening for someone else's inadequate navigation in the information age. But I may be weird.

[dantana]

* Minor Spoiler alarm *

Just for the record, I like Dr Shades, plenty. A little lighthearted gamesmanship never hurt anybody and is certainly more entertaining than sitting through a stupid movie. I think I must have a slight case of o.c.d. too also. It shows up when I am subjected to implausible scenes in movies. for instance, I've seen this one tried a number of times over the years. Josey Wales, The Revenant and now this show, where a recent dead guy gets tied up in the sitting position on a running horse and sent through the bad guys camp as a decoy, and then the dead guy falls off when the bad guys shoot him. Ain't happening... without a couple of days access to a welding shop to build a framework and remote control devices for steering and prodding the cayuse along. Yet, Dudley does it in a couple of minutes in the middle of the night on a mountain pass in a blizzard.

Shades, I've an idea for the makings of a good revenge screenplay. Post the final score of the Rams game I'm watching just now. It's been over for hours. Figuring out how to get me to click on it though may take some work.

[Moksha]

Especially if you live in the future and already know the outcome of the Notre Dame/Ohio State national championship football game!!!

DON'T BE A SPOIL SPORT.

[Dr. Shades]

Now, I wanted to keep fighting, since finding twelve peers of Mr. Dr. Shades would be neart [sic] impossible. (Grammar o.c.d., acronym-o-phobia, DJT disease . . .

Is "DJT disease" a creative way of saying "Trump Derangement Syndrome?"

[I Have Questions]

Unfortunately, though, American Primeval is having an impact. (In the article to which I link above, Barbara Jones Brown cites some viewer reactions that are genuinely concerning and unfortunate. I wouldn’t be surprised if responses of this kind were to lead to violence, whether inside the United States or beyond.)

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... harge.html

Watching American Primeval leads to violence? Really?

It’s not just a little bit amusing, in a black sort of way, to see the comments of Judge Cradlebaugh and the fleeing federal officials of 1857 taken at what appears to be face value. But such is the history that Netflix is currently teaching to a large, global audience. I hope that nobody is hurt because of it. I hope that our chapels and temples aren’t targeted for vandalism.

It sounds like Peterson wants that to happen so that he can blame American Primeval for it.

Barbara Jones Brown, Religion News Service: “What ‘American Primeval’ gets wrong about Mormon — and American — history: The show’s depiction of hood-wearing, sinister Mormons slaughtering emigrants, US Army troops and Shoshone people all within a few days is a sensationalized fabrication intended to ‘entertain.'”

Barbara Jones Brown is the co-author, with Richard E. Turley, of Vengeance Is Mine: The Mountain Meadows Massacre and Its Aftermath (Oxford University Press, 2023). “What does the popular new Netflix series, “American Primeval,” get wrong about the Utah War? Just about everything.”

American Primeval isn't an attempt at documenting the events of the Utah War. It never was. I'm guessing that Peterson and Brown's pearl clutching about this Western fiction series will drive more people to watch it, so there's that. It's worth noting that the Executive Producer of American Primeval spent time with Richard E Turley when researching the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

I hope the show prompts Mormons to investigate what really happened at Mountain Meadows, and why.

[Gadianton]

It sounds like Peterson wants that to happen so that he can blame American Primeval for it.

I totally agree. He at least wants some kind of low-level vandalism of no real consequence that he can use to claim victim status.

After watching part of the Dehlin commentary, I'm a little cross with the producers for blaming various Indian groups for actions that were clearly at the hands of those brainwashed Mormons. It made the Mormons look way better than they really were.

[dantana]

Now, I wanted to keep fighting, since finding twelve peers of Mr. Dr. Shades would be neart [sic] impossible. (Grammar o.c.d., acronym-o-phobia, DJT disease . . .

Is "DJT disease" a creative way of saying "Trump Derangement Syndrome?"

No, it is a parody of TDS and meant to mean the exact opposite as I believed you to be a Trump supporter. At least to a certain extent. If I am wrong then I'll offer a proper apology.

[Markk]

* Minor Spoiler alarm *

Just for the record, I like Dr Shades, plenty. A little lighthearted gamesmanship never hurt anybody and is certainly more entertaining than sitting through a stupid movie. I think I must have a slight case of o.c.d. too also. It shows up when I am subjected to implausible scenes in movies. for instance, I've seen this one tried a number of times over the years. Josey Wales, The Revenant and now this show, where a recent dead guy gets tied up in the sitting position on a running horse and sent through the bad guys camp as a decoy, and then the dead guy falls off when the bad guys shoot him. Ain't happening... without a couple of days access to a welding shop to build a framework and remote control devices for steering and prodding the cayuse along. Yet, Dudley does it in a couple of minutes in the middle of the night on a mountain pass in a blizzard.

Shades, I've an idea for the makings of a good revenge screenplay. Post the final score of the Rams game I'm watching just now. It's been over for hours. Figuring out how to get me to click on it though may take some work.

It was a TV series based loosely on historical events, I am not sure what the big deal is. It is no different than the loosely based LDS produced movies, and in fact closer to historic accuracy, especially by costume and the wild nature of the frontier, and not a Pollyanna version of frontier folks and life, in freshly washed clean clothes and nice hair, speaking like they were in a road show play.

You brought up the Outlaw Josey Wales. That is a great example of another "western" loosely based on an actual historical figure with exaggerated events. The real Josey Wales was Bill Wilson " The Bush Wacker." He killed several people by bush whacking them. He died by being bush whacked by fellow raiders stealing his wagon load of apples. In the final scene of the Movie, Josey Wales is introduced as "Mr. Wilson."

That said it would be great to see a well done historical accurate movie of the MMM, and billed as such. I would also like to see a well done movie about Mark Hoffman, The final days of Joseph in Nauvoo, and I am sure we could think of several others.

I am is denial about the Ram's losing, so close.

[Doctor Scratch]

It sounds like Peterson wants that to happen so that he can blame American Primeval for it.

I totally agree. He at least wants some kind of low-level vandalism of no real consequence that he can use to claim victim status.

Yes: absolutely. The thing is: the Mopologists actually like violence, or at least, they like to threaten it. DCP once jokingly insinuated that he owned an "assault rifle" that he was interested in using on me. Meanwhile, Will Schryver, posting as "Wheat," made vague threats about using a "sniper rifle" on Runtu. I'm sure that there are other examples one could point to. E.g., Midgley's attacks on Gina Colvin are certainly quite unsavory. Meanwhile, you've got their valorization of people like Porter Rockwell and other "Danites." The Afore has zero problem with continuing to allow an unabashedly hostile and vicious poster named "The Last Danite" to post vitriolic material on his blog.

So, while he says that he's "worried" about these negative depictions leading to violence, he's certainly never batted an eyelash over the possibility of bad things happening to John Dehlin, Jonathan Neville, Grant Palmer, Sandra Tanner, Gina Colvin, or any of the other people they've targeted over the years.

[drumdude]

DCP’s worries fall pretty flat. For one, his problem seems to be with Lindsay Hansen Park. She’s not a rabid anti-Mormon. She was Mormon, and in some ways still is. Her tag line is “there is more than one way to be Mormon.”

DCP wants us to envision someone like an anti-Semite who blows up a synagogue. But these “anti-Mormons” are typically former members who still have many Mormon friends, family members, and cultural ties to the religion and culture. They don’t hate Mormonism - they want to express their understanding of its history and leaders.

DCP, in other words, is completely mistaken. He should know better.