Trump Desires to be Sued Over Birthright Citizenship, Does Anyone Understand Why?

[Markk]

Non-sense. You are just once again ducking my question. My assertion was and is, that fentanyl, and other cartel drugs, coming over the border is a huge issue, of many problems, at the border.

Sure it is. When has anyone argued otherwise?

What I’ve said is that your continued attempt to claim that illegal immigration is bad ‘because fentanyl’ is a weak argument, however. Yes, some fentanyl is coming across with some border crossers, but 80% of it is coming across in the arms of American citizens. There are a number of issues with having a large non-citizen population to contend with and your focus on this connection alone attempts to demonize millions of folks already here based on the actions of a tiny percentage of border crossers.

Again you did not answer my question, 4th request, "are you okay with illegal immigration attributing to the death of 1/5 of American fentanyl deaths."

I never claimed once, let alone in a continuing manner, that illegal immigration is bad 'because of fentanyl.' I have said, however, that it is one of many contributing factors as to why "illegal" immigration is hurting our country and citizens.

Yes, some fentanyl is coming across with some border crossers, but 80% of it is coming across in the arms of American citizens.

Almost all fentanyl is coming across the border. The cartels use American citizens and illegal immigrants of this criminal action.

Your prooftext document that you linked, and that you now deny you know nothing about, stated 80% of convictions for bringing it over were American citizens as compared to 20% of convictions by illegals. I pointed out that in 4 years I believe 2018-2022, there were 250K deaths to Americans because of fentanyl, which means illegals bringing it over the border contributed to 1/5th of those deaths. Almost the same amount of Americans that died in the Vietnam war. So via my 5th request, are you okay with that?

There are a number of issues with having a large non-citizen population to contend with and your focus on this connection alone attempts to demonize millions of folks already here based on the actions of a tiny percentage of border crossers.

Dlb Lol....Okay lets discuss these other issues, that by the way I have mention several of them you ignored. However, Stuess is the one that asked the question to me on how there is a connection between illegal immigration and fentanyl, then you jumped in. Ironically in your prooftext link, that you now deny you provided, you answered his question showing that 1/5th of all convictions for smuggling it into the US, is by illegal immigrants.

So once again, and my 6th request, are you okay with illegal immigrants smuggling over these drugs?


Off to work more later.

[canpakes]

Again you did not answer my question, 4th request, "are you okay with illegal immigration attributing to the death of 1/5 of American fentanyl deaths."

I seem to be prompting you to keep moving your goal posts. : )

I’m not OK with anyone contributing to the death of American fentanyl users. Doesn’t matter if that person is a border crosser carrying a package sewed into the backpack given from their coyote handler, or a doctor legally prescribing painkillers but excessively or unnecessarily. My point has always been that you’ve used fentanyl as a way to demonize border crossers. It’s not any more effective or useful to do so as demonizing all doctors for the actions of some in creating this crisis.

You can keep pretending that’s not my point, but your question has been answered … again.

I never claimed once, let alone in a continuing manner, that illegal immigration is bad 'because of fentanyl.' I have said, however, that it is one of many contributing factors as to why "illegal" immigration is hurting our country and citizens.

It has been a major thrust of yours for months. “Look at the drug problem on the streets of San Bernardino (or fill in other struggling Inland Empire city) … if only we didn’t have to deal with illegal immigration causing this problem …” has been a refrain of yours for a while now. Are you saying that you haven’t sung this tune?

Your prooftext document that you linked, and that you now deny you know nothing about, …

Nope. What really happened that was that I’m rejecting your invented synopsis of what I supposedly ‘said’ regarding the test excerpt. Kind of like what you’re doing here.

… stated 80% of convictions for bringing it over were American citizens as compared to 20% of convictions by illegals. I pointed out that in 4 years I believe 2018-2022, there were 250K deaths to Americans because of fentanyl, which means illegals bringing it over the border contributed to 1/5th of those deaths. Almost the same amount of Americans that died in the Vietnam war. So via my 5th request, are you okay with that?

I’ve already answered this above. Given that answer, do you have concerns over who is contributing to the death of 80% of fentanyl overdose victims? Or will you continue to only mention ‘illegals’ when discussing the problem?

If you stop every non-citizen from crossing the border today and from here on out, have you eliminated the fentanyl problem? That’s a question for you; don’t ignore it.
; )

There are a number of issues with having a large non-citizen population to contend with and your focus on this connection alone attempts to demonize millions of folks already here based on the actions of a tiny percentage of border crossers.

Dlb Lol....Okay let’s discuss these other issues, …

Are you wanting to start a few new threads, or should we just derail this one further?

[Markk]

I seem to be prompting you to keep moving your goal posts. : )

I’m not OK with anyone contributing to the death of American fentanyl users. Doesn’t matter if that person is a border crosser carrying a package sewed into the backpack given from their coyote handler, or a doctor legally prescribing painkillers but excessively or unnecessarily. My point has always been that you’ve used fentanyl as a way to demonize border crossers. It’s not any more effective or useful to do so as demonizing all doctors for the actions of some in creating this crisis.

Lol...How is my opining to your assertion, moving any goal post?

I’m not OK with anyone contributing to the death of American fentanyl users.

Good. So then the aggressive approach that the new administration is taking to help mitigate the smuggling of fentanyl is good and warranted. Do you agree?

My point has always been that you’ve used fentanyl as a way to demonize border crossers. It’s not any more effective or useful to do so as demonizing all doctors for the actions of some in creating this crisis.

Where did use fentanyl to demonize border crossers?

The first person to use the word "fentanyl was Hound of Heaven.... Sun Jan 26, 2025 6:29 am

The Second time Fentanyl was mentioned was by Steuss. He wrote....
For reference, the "lax border policy" last year resulted in the seizure of 175,000 pounds of marijuana, 174,000 pounds of meth, 68,200 pounds of cocaine, 21,900 pounds of fentanyl, 1,200 pounds of heroin, 17,600 pounds of khat, 7,300 pounds of ketamine, 609 pounds of ecstasy, 14 pounds of LSD, and over 100,000 pounds of other illegal drugs.

As some not-so-fun math, the amount of fentanyl stopped from entering the US last year alone is enough to kill half of the world's population in a single overdose.
The third time it was mentioned was by you. You wrote....
‘Lax border policy’, drug enforcement efforts and the debate over immigration are not linked in the way you present. If every border crosser was (1) carrying fentanyl or precursors and (2) a noncitizen, then you’d have a point. But this is far, far, far from the case, especially given how many American citizens have been found to be carrying fentanyl across the border.

In short, you can’t rationalize your attitudes towards border crossers in general on the drug choices and addictions of Americans.

The fourth person was Gad. The fifth was Physic's Guy.

The sixth person was me, and ironically I wrote
I can link it to a lax border. I never said every border crosser carry's fentanyl across the border. You are just searching for strawmen, while confirming the issue of a lax border under Biden. Ok yes, American citizens carry drugs over the border, cartel drugs, over, through, around.... a weakened border. And Trump is going to go after those folks very hard. Do you have a problem with that?

Immigration problems and drug smuggling at a weakened border are linked, to the weakened border.

Again this is one of the reason the left is struggling...their denial of there is a problem.

Cakes, you fabricated a straw-man, and a rather weak one. What I wrote was we can attribute drugs, and other issues to a "lax border," and some how you are insisting I am using fentanyl to demonize "border crossers."

Now that you admit bringing any drugs across the border that are killing people is bad, it seems that after all this, we are in agreement, if you read what actually wrote.

[Markk]

Markk: Your prooftext document that you linked, and that you now deny you know nothing about, ...

canpakes: Nope. What really happened that was that I’m rejecting your invented synopsis of what I supposedly ‘said’ regarding the test excerpt. Kind of like what you’re doing here.

Well, explain how I did that pakes?

Markk: I never claimed once, let alone in a continuing manner, that illegal immigration is bad 'because of fentanyl.' I have said, however, that it is one of many contributing factors as to why "illegal" immigration is hurting our country and citizens.

canpakes: It has been a major thrust of yours for months. “Look at the drug problem on the streets of San Bernardino (or fill in other struggling Inland Empire city) ... if only we didn’t have to deal with illegal immigration causing this problem ...” has been a refrain of yours for a while now. Are you saying that you haven’t sung this tune?

LOL, talk about moving goal posts. What happened in San Bernardino and other cities like it, has nothing to do with your assertion that I am demonizing "border crossers" in regard to fentanyl.

Drug addiction is a major issue in SB, big time. Are you denying that? I would love to give you a tour. I also discussed the closing of Norton Air Force Base, Kaiser Steel, and Santa Fe Railroad, all within a few years lending to it's demise. SB has thousands of illegal immigrants and citizens living below the poverty line, shall we just deny that fact?

Markk... stated 80% of convictions for bringing it over were American citizens as compared to 20% of convictions by illegals. I pointed out that in 4 years I believe 2018-2022, there were 250K deaths to Americans because of fentanyl, which means illegals bringing it over the border contributed to 1/5th of those deaths. Almost the same amount of Americans that died in the Vietnam war. So via my 5th request, are you okay with that?

canpakes wrote:
I’ve already answered this above. Given that answer, do you have concerns over who is contributing to the death of 80% of fentanyl overdose victims? Or will you continue to only mention ‘illegals’ when discussing the problem?

If you stop every non-citizen from crossing the border today and from here on out, have you eliminated the fentanyl problem? That’s a question for you; don’t ignore it.
; )

Yes I have concerns with the cartels using American citizens, and I hope those smugglers go to prison, and that the cartel leaders a lot worse. Sadly, if true, the folks the cartels recruit are down and out folks and even high school students are recruited. Which make it a tough thing to deal with. Read the link below. And by the way I already answered this and wrote " As far as your implication about my "approach," I strongly believe we should go after anyone smuggling these drugs across the border equally, American or Immigrant. I believe we should prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law/s."

You are still stuck on your straw-man of fentanyl? Do you mean stopping every immigrant coming into our country illegally? No, it would not eliminate fentanyl, that is just unrealistic. It would however stop way more that the 20% of it or so that is getting across by illegal immigrants, and save thousands of lives, according to your numbers. I think that is a good thing. It would also stop other illegal things, like coming into our country illegally for one.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/28/worl ... Relief Society-us.html

[Markk]

Pakes: Are you wanting to start a few new threads, or should we just derail this one further?

You choose! Either one works for me.

[Markk]

...Markk: and "should we aggressively go after these illegal immigrants and prosecute them, punish them, and at some point deport them? It is not a hard question.

Pakes: Is this your way of telling me that you’ve already forgotten that my 30-second revamping of the current immigration/citizenship system posted two years ago would even do the same to green card holders within a probationary period if they commit the same kinds of crimes?

You’re not paying attention. Bad Markk. ; )

So then you stand by your 30 second revamping and you believe we should aggressively go after those 20%. Great and noted.

1. There’s nothing in my comments about cartels. You just made that up.

And,

2. Technically, and actually, 100% of the American citizens who overdose on fentanyl have absolutely been 100% killed by Americans. All of them. 100%.

Am I realllllyy going to have to explain that one to you? : )

1. Who drugs are these folks, illegal or legal, for the most part bringing across? It is implied and the heart of my argument.

2. Well, that is just a dumb cop out. It is cartel supplied drugs killing them in most cases, caused in most cases by their addictions. Spinning that as a excuse to focus on trying to get out of the hole you have dug yourself into, is obvious.

[canpakes]

I seem to be prompting you to keep moving your goal posts. : )

I’m not OK with anyone contributing to the death of American fentanyl users. Doesn’t matter if that person is a border crosser carrying a package sewed into the backpack given from their coyote handler, or a doctor legally prescribing painkillers but excessively or unnecessarily. My point has always been that you’ve used fentanyl as a way to demonize border crossers. It’s not any more effective or useful to do so as demonizing all doctors for the actions of some in creating this crisis.

Lol...How is my opining to your assertion, moving any goal post?

It is when you’re actually opining to your assertion while claiming that it’s mine.

Good. So then the aggressive approach that the new administration is taking to help mitigate the smuggling of fentanyl is good and warranted. Do you agree?

‘Approach’ is another squishy and relatively meaningless term. Talk instead about specific actions. Which actions in particular?

Where did use fentanyl to demonize border crossers?

Is fentanyl not a drug? When you were talking about homeless/drug abusers clogging the streets of CA, were you excluding fentanyl abusers?

Now that you admit bringing any drugs across the border that are killing people is bad, it seems that after all this, we are in agreement, if you read what actually wrote.

At this point, I’m not sure that some folks will be able to conclude that you’re in agreement with what you wrote.

If you stop every non-citizen from crossing the border today and from here on out, have you eliminated the fentanyl problem?

[Markk]

Pakes: Is fentanyl not a drug? When you were talking about homeless/drug abusers clogging the streets of CA, were you excluding fentanyl abusers?

Are you kidding me...Lol, so you really meant all drugs, instead of specifically writing "fentanyl," and stating and linking about it specifically, and falsely even wrote ,... "What I’ve said is that your continued attempt to claim that illegal immigration is bad ‘because fentanyl’ is a weak argument,..." And now that I showed you that I never even said anything about it and you fabricated it....you finally understood, so you try to wiggle out of your argument by now saying you were talking about all drugs.

And now you are trying to combine the context of a previous thread with this one....LoL....your pretzel just got another loop.

[canpakes]

...your pretzel just got another loop.

Unloop this:

If you stop every non-citizen from crossing the border today and from here on out, have you eliminated the fentanyl problem?

[Markk]

Pakes: At this point, I’m not sure that some folks will be able to conclude that you’re in agreement with what you wrote.

If you stop every non-citizen from crossing the border today and from here on out, have you eliminated the fentanyl problem?

No, but like I wrote, if no one crossed the border illegally with fentanyl, it would save countless lives. I think most folks can understand the logical framework behind that.