The Fentanyl Crisis thread

[Markk]

What business are you in?

I am in construction and virtually every larger company in CA that competitively bids work hires illegal immigrants for labor. If they did not, they would not be in business. It is that simple. Cheap labor = bids won. I personally do not, I do not own the company I work for.

We sub contract from the big boys like Turner, or DPR (google them), and their sites are always full of illegal workers....getting low bids from subs is how they compete with each other.

Again what business are you in (or where) in?

Professor. So, every CA company in your industry wouldn't be in business if illegal immigrants were not hired. Gotcha. (which means, I understand.)

No I did not say that at all. Please go back and read what I wrote again. And no, you do not understand.

What typically happens is that a owner or agency will put out a request for bids(RFP) on a project, and issue instructions on how the project is to be bid, and typically along with qualifications. Contractors will then provide bids to build the project. Lets say the projected project is in the 10 million dollar range. When estimating the contract, estimating the material is competitive and close, in that it is basically a is what it is scenario.

Labor is a different story. If the project is estimated that it will take 30 carpenters for 6 months, and a legit contractor has to pay 45 dollars an hour.... vs a company that uses primarily illegal carpenters that get 23 dollars an hour, they simply will not win the awarding of the project. Compound that with most all the other trades, there is just no way to compete.

It is not so much an issue with smaller contractors especially those who specialize in certain trades. They have their own niches.

It is the same with government contracting of other things, like food, furniture, dry goods, clothing, etc. The fed's city, state, county.... issue an RFP and these contractors provide a number to hopefully win the contract.

Contracts are awarded typically via "the lowest responsible bid," responsible meaning that they did not miss anything requested in the RFP. So if the RFP is a request for a suppling bacon to a navy base....would a slaughter and packing house that hires legal citizens demanding 20% or more an hour plus benefits win the bin over one that uses illegal labor for 20% less and no benefits? No.

You can deny this is how it works all you want, but you are missing the reality of what is going on.

No answer my question...what do/did you do for a living?

[Markk]

Answer my question, then I answer yours, remember how it works. I promise I will answer these questions, but lets have a conversation please.

There are too many times when I answer your questions, and you (1) ignore the answers and ask the same question later. Or, (2) you simply dodge the question.

Your reply here seems to be the second option.

Nonsense. If I miss a question you ask, ask me again. When you do answer often they are cryptic and allow plausible deniability, like your "open border" fail.

Here are my questions again...

As you generally phrase it no. But if we break it down more, such as if the cartel members that are here illegally and networking the fentanyl throughout our nation and to our citizens, yes, if they are part of the deportations, given that the crisis is costing us two trillion +- a year. Do you disagree with that?

Harris states in her speech toward the end we must tackle the issue of Fentanyl from every angle, do yo disagree?

[canpakes]

So if the RFP is a request for a suppling bacon to a navy base....

Are they requesting Davis bacon? That’s the more-expensive bacon option. *

*sorry; couldn’t resist. : D

[Marcus]

Professor. So, every CA company in your industry wouldn't be in business if illegal immigrants were not hired. Gotcha. (which means, I understand.)

No I did not say that at all. Please go back and read what I wrote again. And no, you do not understand.

What typically happens is that a owner or agency will put out a request for bids(RFP) on a project, and issue instructions on how the project is to be bid, and typically along with qualifications. Contractors will then provide bids to build the project. Lets say the projected project is in the 10 million dollar range. When estimating the contract, estimating the material is competitive and close, in that it is basically a is what it is scenario.

Labor is a different story. If the project is estimated that it will take 30 carpenters for 6 months, and a legit contractor has to pay 45 dollars an hour.... vs a company that uses primarily illegal carpenters that get 23 dollars an hour, they simply will not win the awarding of the project. Compound that with most all the other trades, there is just no way to compete.

It is not so much an issue with smaller contractors especially those who specialize in certain trades. They have their own niches.

It is the same with government contracting of other things, like food, furniture, dry goods, clothing, etc. The fed's city, state, county.... issue an RFP and these contractors provide a number to hopefully win the contract.

Contracts are awarded typically via "the lowest responsible bid," responsible meaning that they did not miss anything requested in the RFP. So if the RFP is a request for a suppling bacon to a navy base....would a slaughter and packing house that hires legal citizens demanding 20% or more an hour plus benefits win the bin over one that uses illegal labor for 20% less and no benefits? No.

You can deny this is how it works all you want, but you are missing the reality of what is going on.

No answer my question...what do/did you do for a living?

I answered your question-I am a professor.

And you said:

I am in construction and virtually every larger company in CA that competitively bids work hires illegal immigrants for labor. If they did not, they would not be in business. It is that simple.

My mistake. I will correct: "virtually every larger CA company in your industry wouldn't be in business if illegal immigrants were not hired."

Gotcha.

You can deny this is how it works all you want, but you are missing the reality of what is going on.

I agree. You gave a huge explanation, but no matter how you try to twist it the bottom line is that your industry relies upon labor provided by the illegal immigrants that you are arguing should be deported.

[canpakes]

I agree. You gave a huge explanation, but no matter how you try to twist it the bottom line is that your industry relies upon labor provided by the illegal immigrants that you are arguing should be deported.

That’s so weird. I was under the impression that all of these illegals spent their days selling drugs and being homeless and unemployed. And now it turns out that they’re helping to satisfy America’s housing demand while making big general contracting companies successful and their owners wealthy.

It must be that every single pocket in those cute orange construction vests is filled with fentanyl pills.

[Marcus]

I agree. You gave a huge explanation, but no matter how you try to twist it the bottom line is that your industry relies upon labor provided by the illegal immigrants that you are arguing should be deported.

That’s so weird. I was under the impression that all of these illegals spent their days selling drugs and being homeless and unemployed. And now it turns out that they’re helping to satisfy America’s housing demand while making big general contracting companies successful and their owners wealthy.

It must be that every single pocket in those cute orange construction vests is filled with fentanyl pills.

Just think of it...we just have to crash the entire construction, housing, and agricultural industries plus a quite a few others, and we can snag 20% of the fentanyl that is smuggled. Well, maybe (quite a considerable bit) less, unless the cartel smugglers are moonlighting in other industries, but that sounds exhausting..

[canpakes]

That’s so weird. I was under the impression that all of these illegals spent their days selling drugs and being homeless and unemployed. And now it turns out that they’re helping to satisfy America’s housing demand while making big general contracting companies successful and their owners wealthy.

It must be that every single pocket in those cute orange construction vests is filled with fentanyl pills.

Just think of it...we just have to crash the entire construction, housing, and agricultural industries plus a quite a few others, and we can snag 20% of the fentanyl that is smuggled. Well, maybe (quite a considerable bit) less, unless the cartel smugglers are moonlighting in other industries.

Have you considered that if we undergo mass deportations, and force that crash, we could then experience the following: ; )

1. Millions of remaining legal construction workers will become depressed about the industry crash, and become hooked on anti-depressants, and -

2. General Contractors will be forced to hire unqualified, out-of-shape white guys who will immediately suffer much higher accident and injury rates, resulting in a huge surge of opioid painkiller use and eventual fentanyl abuse.

Uh ohs.

[Markk]

LOl, my bad I thought you were being a smart ass and calling me professor. I apologize.

So what are you a professor of? My guess is it is not business.

Marcus:
My mistake. I will correct: "virtually every larger CA company in your industry wouldn't be in business if illegal immigrants were not hired."

No, but you are getting closer. You missed the completive part. There are contractors the specialize and negotiate with trusted clients who value quality. But that is in the private arena. Government contracting demands publishing their projects to the public to help avoid collusion. But they even find ways around that (ask if you are interested).

Marcus: I agree. You gave a huge explanation, but no matter how you try to twist it the bottom line is that your industry relies upon labor provided by the illegal immigrants that you are arguing should be deported.

Absolutely. We employ depending on the work load about 150-200 people. We are a smaller company. Not everyone is illegal, we have many workers here on a working visas (green cards) also, and some dreamers, first generation citizens. However because of the illegal presence, they too have to settle for lesser wages. If we paid them higher wages, again we would never win a bid; or make a large enough profit to keep the doors open if we did lessen profit, overhead, and burden to win a bid. The dreamers get it, and is one reason why Trump did better with the Hispanic vote.

I would love to see these folks, at least the ones that are working hard and doing things right earn a living wage, where they could afford a family and buy a home. Try to buy a home in So CA making 28 dollars and hour.

I am not twisting anything Marcus, it is a reality, illegal immigration drives competitive building and government contracting. If you are naïve enough to think that never Trump republicans and democrats really care about these folks, you might want to think more about it. They use these folks for cheap labor and votes, both sides, and they are freaking out because Trump is cleaning up their mess, so Citizens of any color can do better. Between Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Biden they had a change to clean this up and the did nothing.

A bit off track, but a related example....taking our auto industry to Mexico isn't for the American people, it is for the auto makers, and the politicians being greased by their lobbyists. It is actually in my opinion the same thing just in reverse, instead of coming here and taking jobs, they ship the job's there.

[Markk]

So if the RFP is a request for a suppling bacon to a navy base....

Are they requesting Davis bacon? That’s the more-expensive bacon option. *

*sorry; couldn’t resist. : D

That is another animal, but that act only applies to on site labor. Not off site, so, no bacon plants don't qualify.

[Markk]

That’s so weird. I was under the impression that all of these illegals spent their days selling drugs and being homeless and unemployed. And now it turns out that they’re helping to satisfy America’s housing demand while making big general contracting companies successful and their owners wealthy.

It must be that every single pocket in those cute orange construction vests is filled with fentanyl pills.

Just think of it...we just have to crash the entire construction, housing, and agricultural industries plus a quite a few others, and we can snag 20% of the fentanyl that is smuggled. Well, maybe (quite a considerable bit) less, unless the cartel smugglers are moonlighting in other industries, but that sounds exhausting..

Again this is a straw-man. Insisting that illegal immigration is somehow justified because it does not deal in drugs.