Reasons people stopped attending church

[I Have Questions]

The Church still maintains that only Mormons will reside in "heaven" (the Celestial Kingdom).

Ultimately, everyone will receive a degree of glory that aligns with their desires and actions.

Would you, IHQ, want to be in the Celestial Kingdom? Would you want to live the kind/type of life/existence that God lives?

Some do, and some don't.

But to think that God has provided a reward/mansion for all of His children and that these kingdoms are beyond our comprehension is difficult to wrap our minds around. Even if the Celestial glory is not your thing (not saying it isn't) that doesn't mean that God doesn't have something in store for you beyond imagination.

LDS theology has evolved from exclusivity to a broader understanding that nearly all people will inherit some form of heavenly glory, with the celestial kingdom being the ultimate goal for those who fully embrace and live by LDS teachings.

It ends up being kind of like the children's series, Choose Your Own Adventure. Multiple outcomes are available depending on choices and inclinations to follow God's will and keep His commandments.

Some are inclined to do so and others aren't.

Mormonism holds that to enter the Celestial Kingdom (the highest level in the Mormon version of the afterlife) you need to have completed all the Mormon ordinances from Baptism through to Temple Marriage, either directly yourself, or indirectly via a proxy session after you are deceased. It's the reason temples exist. For MG 2.0 to express a disbelief in that core tenet is a big statement of apostate thinking.

I don't disbelieve that core tenet. What I do believe is what I said in my previous post.

Regards,
MG

Interesting. Previously you responded and said that you do disbelieve that core tenet.

Do you believe that after they die, people will be assigned distinctly separate “kingdoms” in which they will be collated with other, equally performing like-minded individuals, domains in which they will reside forever and from which they have no ability to progress to a “higher” kingdom?

Do you believe that there will be people in the highest kingdom who haven’t accepted membership in the Mormon Church and for whom a proxy or living baptism has not been performed?

Apparently I lacked enough clarity for you.

First question: no

Second question: no

So you are now saying that you do believe the two things that you also said you don't believe. It is very hard to discuss something with someone who takes mutually exclusive positions simultaneously. It's bizarre. Did you not understand the questions?

[I Have Questions]

LDS theology has evolved from exclusivity to a broader understanding that nearly all people will inherit some form of heavenly glory, with the celestial kingdom being the ultimate goal for those who fully embrace and live by LDS teachings.

In what way(s) is the Kingdoms of Glory theology different now than from when Smith wrote about it? How, specifically, has it evolved since then?

[Moksha]

MG, would they have Pad Thai in the Celestial Kingdom or just tuna casserole with fry sauce?

[MG 2.0]

Do you believe that after they die, people will be assigned distinctly separate “kingdoms” in which they will be collated with other, equally performing like-minded individuals, domains in which they will reside forever and from which they have no ability to progress to a “higher” kingdom?

Do you believe that there will be people in the highest kingdom who haven’t accepted membership in the Mormon Church and for whom a proxy or living baptism has not been performed?

I'm bumping this for MG 2.0 because he's yet to (as a missionary would be expected to do) give a clear response as to what he believes on this subject. My questions are very specific, very easy to understand, they are about a very well known doctrinal subject, and can be answered with a simple Yes or a simple No. MG 2.0 either believes what the Church specifically and unequivocally teaches about the afterlife (which is reflected in my questions), or he doesn't. His avoidance of giving a direct answer to each makes his claim about being here to do missionary work disingenuous. If he lacks sufficient courage of his self proclaimed convictions to answer such simple questions, then I can only surmise it's because he doesn't really believe what his Church teaches.

His nonsensical reference to a passage in Acts suggests he might actually be struggling to follow along and fully comprehend what he and others are saying. If he's struggling due to age-related mental deterioration then I wish him all the best.

Apparently my previous answer wasn't clear enough for you. I figured as much.

I think that eternal progression allows for all of God's children to progress. There isn't a line beyond what they cannot cross. That should answer both your questions.

Eternity is a long time.

Here is a thought experiment for you and then I will leave this in your hands. We have an education system. Multifaceted and varied in its functionality. With a common purpose. Progression, learning, and application of skills learned. Lower education, secondary, four year, and graduate. Limited time, limited abilities, limited resources, etc. as one approaches their educational path and achievements. If one chooses.

If one ends up in a given place they can, if time and resources allow, go back and further their education and change their trajectory.

Continuing the thought experiment. Apply that pattern to eternal progression with all of its complexities above and beyond what we might see/imagine within the educational framework in the western world. Not even considering the learning/education that takes place in countries without and established and functional system such as we have.

What are some possibilities that come to your mind even when working within a baseline framework of 'many mansions' and three kingdoms of glory in which continued learning and progress takes place if one chooses. I'll leave you to it.

Perfect analogy? Of course not. Enough to get your creative juices flowing? I think so. Have fun!

Watch out for that 'black and white' thinking that I've brought up over and over again. It can get you into trouble.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

So you are now saying that you do believe the two things that you also said you don't believe. It is very hard to discuss something with someone who takes mutually exclusive positions simultaneously. It's bizarre. Did you not understand the questions?

Yes. Again, have fun with the thought experiment.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Would you, IHQ, want to be in the Celestial Kingdom?

How about you MG, would you really want to live in the Celestial Kingdom?

Over the long haul...eternity is a long time...I would like to be in a position to become more and more like God and do some of the same stuff (on a much smaller scale initially) that He does. But there would be so much more to learn and become proficient in. It's actually beyond my imagination at this point.

But to be on the path and know that God could trust me with His knowledge and power. Wow!!

Sounds like a pretty good gig.

Regards,
MG

[canpakes]

How about you MG, would you really want to live in the Celestial Kingdom?

Over the long haul...eternity is a long time...I would like to be in a position to become more and more like God and do some of the same stuff (on a much smaller scale initially) that He does.

Can you work on the current human energy acquisition model? It seems silly that we need to depend entirely upon consuming other life in order to remain alive.

[MG 2.0]

Over the long haul...eternity is a long time...I would like to be in a position to become more and more like God and do some of the same stuff (on a much smaller scale initially) that He does.

Can you work on the current human energy acquisition model? It seems silly that we need to depend entirely upon consuming other life in order to remain alive.

Will do! No guarantees though.

Honestly? I like hamburgers so I have a built in bias. Gosh, I like shrimp too.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

I'm bumping this for MG 2.0 because he's yet to (as a missionary would be expected to do) give a clear response as to what he believes on this subject. My questions are very specific, very easy to understand, they are about a very well known doctrinal subject, and can be answered with a simple Yes or a simple No. MG 2.0 either believes what the Church specifically and unequivocally teaches about the afterlife (which is reflected in my questions), or he doesn't. His avoidance of giving a direct answer to each makes his claim about being here to do missionary work disingenuous. If he lacks sufficient courage of his self proclaimed convictions to answer such simple questions, then I can only surmise it's because he doesn't really believe what his Church teaches.

His nonsensical reference to a passage in Acts suggests he might actually be struggling to follow along and fully comprehend what he and others are saying. If he's struggling due to age-related mental deterioration then I wish him all the best.

Apparently my previous answer wasn't clear enough for you. I figured as much.

I think that eternal progression allows for all of God's children to progress. There isn't a line beyond what they cannot cross. That should answer both your questions.

Well now you’re back to your first answer, that you disbelieve the two core tenets within Mormonism as they are currently taught.

Bruce R said

Bruce R. McConkie: There are those who say that there is progression from one kingdom to another in the eternal world…this is worse than false. It is an evil and pernicious doctrine.

MG 2.0 you are spreading “evil and pernicious” falsehoods.

Spencer W. Kimball: After a person has been assigned to his place in [a] kingdom…he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. (The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 243-4)

Now let’s say the Church and those leaders have it wrong. And that you have it right and people can progress and/or regress between kingdoms. That undermines the whole reason for temples. It undermines the whole idea of needing to join the Church and endure to the end. If you have an eternity to join, to learn, to be baptised, to be sealed, etc etc etc then there no impetus to do it now in this “blink of an eye” existence. There’s literally an infinite amount of time to progress, and so “now” becomes meaningless. No need to get your temple work done “now” because you can do it at some point along an infinite time continuum. The purpose of the Church becomes null and void. Just wait till the afterlife to entertain Mormonism. Why not eat, drink, and be merry, and enjoy all this life has to offer and worry about Mormonism after you’re dead, because according to you, you can?

[canpakes]

Can you work on the current human energy acquisition model? It seems silly that we need to depend entirely upon consuming other life in order to remain alive.

Will do! No guarantees though.

Honestly? I like hamburgers so I have a built in bias. Gosh, I like shrimp too.

Regards,
MG

Sorry, there are no burgers and shrimp cocktails in the CK.

You won’t need to eat, and even if you did, killing the cows and shrimp that worked so hard to be good enough to get into the CK would be rude, to say the least.

Also, since we’re on the topic of improving things, please make flatulence smell more like fresh-baked bread. That should only require a little tweaking of the genetic code of our intestinal flora, and the children will get a kick out of it. Seems like an entirely trivial task for even a junior demiurge.

Actually, now that I look at it, I have a pretty long list of things that need a tweak or two.