Trump is not a fascist

[Some Schmo]

Oh my God, Markk. Just how stupid are you?

Trump's base is deranged, which is why they've embraced the idiotic idea of TDS applied to Trump critics rather than themselves. Projection is the key to MAGA's emotional self-defense.

[Some Schmo]

Whether Trump fits an exact definition of fascist is irrelevant. The idea resonates with people who know what fascism is.

And that doesn't change the fact that he's a criminal, rapist, fraudster, perjurer, cheater, unfaithful, cruel, insecure, psychotic and intellectually incompetent asshole.

[huckelberry]

It is just as useless as any term. Democracy. Capitalism. Socialism. It is very telling, and no doubt one reason we have ended up where we are, that people are so precious about the term fascism.

I can remember fear of fascism in Amerika with Nixon's growth of desire for power combined with the broader tendrils of power over other countries deeply rooted in Amerika.

There is perhaps false assurance from Nixon's removal from power. I am sure Trump is a greater danger. I feel in comparison Nixon was a patriot and a statesman with real concern for the country.

Kishkumen, I did run down and read the Ur Fascism article by Eco. It is definitely worth the read. The general idea of social things keeping the ghost of fascism alive did not have a lot new to me. The observations have bounced around for quite a while but the article is clear engaging and pointed. It did specify that the image of Italian fascism I mentioned was oversimplified or a bit superficial. Eco is focusing on the reality that a variety of authoritarian systems have related qualities which he explores but are multiformed. Stepping back one can observe that Argentina's dirty war, civil war in El Salvador or Nicaragua all involve fascism qualities but do not fit into a single mold. They were not the same as European political movements of the 20s, 30s they definitely have ur fascist qualities. Maga most certainly is full of them, may consist of little else.

It may be a side topic but I noticed in the little section about people seizing upon the idea that all real truth has been held in the past as is slipping away due to modernism or university professors of whatever that Eco made a precedent of Hellenistic enchantment with the idea of some original great revelation at the beginning of history lost except for clues and meanings hidden in old records. Eco adds American new age fascination to that. There is certainly been popular as well as occult interest in that for some centuries. It is certainly part of Mormonism. I admit been unaware of it being a significant part of Hellenistic culture.

Well I have reservations about thinking that new age stuff has had any good effect of progressive political views.

Eco's essay certainly fits with the sense that our particular political situation contains is a combination of multiple social forces fomenting an ur fascist mind set.

[huckelberry]

The full essay by Eco is worth it but Wikipedia summary is not all bad:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism

The fourteen properties are as follows:

"The cult of tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.

"The rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.

"The cult of action for action's sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.

"Disagreement is treason" – fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.

"Fear of difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.

"Appeal to a frustrated middle class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.

"Obsession with a plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society. Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.

Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak". On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.

"Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy" because "life is permanent warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.

"Contempt for the weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate leader, who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.

"Everybody is educated to become a hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death."

"Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality".

"Selective populism" – the people, conceived monolithically, have a common will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he alone dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the voice of the people".

"Newspeak" – fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.

[Kishkumen]

I can remember fear of fascism in Amerika with Nixon's growth of desire for power combined with the broader tendrils of power over other countries deeply rooted in Amerika.

There is perhaps false assurance from Nixon's removal from power. I am sure Trump is a greater danger. I feel in comparison Nixon was a patriot and a statesman with real concern for the country.

Kishkumen, I did run down and read the Ur Fascism article by Eco. It is definitely worth the read. The general idea of social things keeping the ghost of fascism alive did not have a lot new to me. The observations have bounced around for quite a while but the article is clear engaging and pointed. It did specify that the image of Italian fascism I mentioned was oversimplified or a bit superficial. Eco is focusing on the reality that a variety of authoritarian systems have related qualities which he explores but are multiformed. Stepping back one can observe that Argentina's dirty war, civil war in El Salvador or Nicaragua all involve fascism qualities but do not fit into a single mold. They were not the same as European political movements of the 20s, 30s they definitely have ur fascist qualities. Maga most certainly is full of them, may consist of little else.

It may be a side topic but I noticed in the little section about people seizing upon the idea that all real truth has been held in the past as is slipping away due to modernism or university professors of whatever that Eco made a precedent of Hellenistic enchantment with the idea of some original great revelation at the beginning of history lost except for clues and meanings hidden in old records. Eco adds American new age fascination to that. There is certainly been popular as well as occult interest in that for some centuries. It is certainly part of Mormonism. I admit been unaware of it being a significant part of Hellenistic culture.

Well I have reservations about thinking that new age stuff has had any good effect of progressive political views.

Eco's essay certainly fits with the sense that our particular political situation contains is a combination of multiple social forces fomenting an ur fascist mind set.

Great post, huckelberry. No one should ever underestimate your thoughtfulness and perceptiveness. I will write again when I am less in shock over the day's events.

[Jersey Girl]

It takes a village or, I guess, a determined Democrat.

Van Hollen speaks to press after meeting with El Salvador VP about return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZPzHyCtt0

There's a headline on CNN where Trump apparently says he's "not involved." Oh honey, you're involved up to your spray tanned eyeballs.

[Kishkumen]

It takes a village or, I guess, a determined Democrat.

Van Hollen speaks to press after meeting with El Salvador VP about return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZPzHyCtt0

There's a headline on CNN where Trump apparently says he's "not involved." Oh honey, you're involved up to your spray tanned eyeballs.

Trump is such a feckless coward and bully.

[Jersey Girl]

Well it looks like he managed to secure a meeting with Mr. Garcia. Looks like Kish started a new thread on the topic.

Full details of the meeting in the article linked below.

Maryland Democrat says he met with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador
https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/17/politics ... index.html

[Gunnar]

Great post, huckelberry. No one should ever underestimate your thoughtfulness and perceptiveness.

A big AMEN to that! I have always admired his thoughtfulness and perceptiveness.

[Jersey Girl]

I suggest a little more homework in regard to Garcia.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/04/16/kil ... y-violence

I suggest that if you can't hit the ball then you should get off the field.

The Trump administration is defying a court order to secure the return of Mr. Garcia. That is to say, Trump is defying the unanimous ruling of the very the Supreme Court he stacked in his alleged favor.

And no, if you reply to me I refuse to engage in one of your back and forths that goes exactly nowhere so don't even bother.