All 7 Of Jacob Hansen's Siblings Have Left The Church

[MG 2.0]

Hard to say on that. That is, how many people lose their faith in God and Jesus Christ. If I were to ask that question here it would be interesting to see the response.

I would still maintain, that those that leave the church and lose their faith in God and become atheistic may have never had that connection with God and Jesus in the first place. Why? Because it is that connection that supersedes everything else.

Regards,
MG

The No True Scotsman’s accusation comes out as much as Godwin's law. Assuming that is true from your perspective, whose fault is that? With all the moving parts that supposedly happens with things like what family you end up with, what socioeconomic status, or your genetic predisposition.

God is there, nonetheless. It's no one's "fault" that any one thing...seen from our perspective...is THAT thing that indicates that 'God did it' or didn't. We live in a world of nature. It was created that way. It's difficult to place 'blame' on that which occurs naturally and without any external influence.

If a person, through no fault of their own, is not able to develop faith in God/divinity...He will take that into account.

How could He not? He's fair and just. But, where much is given much is expected.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

It's fascinating to read when a person presents their belief in the supernatural as though they were facts. Most people these days are more circumspect in their language, but when you get one in the wild who has no filters and no worldly experience, the result is just bonkers.

[I Have Questions]

It's fascinating to read when a person presents their belief in the supernatural as though they were facts. Most people these days are more circumspect in their language, but when you get one in the wild who has no filters and no worldly experience, the result is just bonkers.

Especially if they immediately label people who believe differently to them as “dumb and stupid”.

[I Have Questions]

God is there, nonetheless. It's no one's "fault" that any one thing...seen from our perspective...is THAT thing that indicates that 'God did it' or didn't. We live in a world of nature. It was created that way. It's difficult to place 'blame' on that which occurs naturally and without any external influence.

Mormons do not find it difficult to place ‘blame’ on God for things that occur naturally and without any external influence. Just listen during the next F&T you attend. Remember the GA who apportioned ‘blame’ on God for the recovery of a stunned gnat? Of course they only ‘blame’ God for stuff when it suits them, and only for things that work out well.

[Moksha]

MG, Jacob's siblings who left the LDS Church did so in response to something about the LDS Church, not an overarching beef with the concept of God.

A strict Freudian might observe, "Sometimes Joseph is just a banana".

[I Have Questions]

Except for the fact that so many leave God and Jesus in the dust when they leave the church. It's almost as if they didn't already have that connection.

That’s not been my experience. I think that folks who leave often do develop a view of God and Jesus that doesn’t align with the seemingly quirky view that Mormonism dictates—but that’s not the same as leaving them behind. The Mormon conceptions of God are alien and strange to many other faith traditions. It’s often difficult to understand that while you’re ensconced in the LDS faith.

MG’ly has already been shown the data that shows less than 30% of members who stop attending do so because they become atheistic. More than half of members who leave maintain a belief in a higher power. With another portion maintaining an agnostic position.

But those facts aren’t the narrative MG’ly wants to portray, so he ignores them and carries on misrepresenting the situation. He’s either delusional, or he’s trying to be wilfully deceptive.

So once again, very few leave God and Jesus in the dust when they leave the Mormon Church.

The one thing I’ve learned about MG’ly is that when he asserts something as a fact, it’s usually nothing of the sort.

[MG 2.0]

That’s not been my experience. I think that folks who leave often do develop a view of God and Jesus that doesn’t align with the seemingly quirky view that Mormonism dictates—but that’s not the same as leaving them behind. The Mormon conceptions of God are alien and strange to many other faith traditions. It’s often difficult to understand that while you’re ensconced in the LDS faith.

MG’ly has already been shown the data that shows less than 30% of members who stop attending do so because they become atheistic. More than half of members who leave maintain a belief in a higher power. With another portion maintaining an agnostic position.

But those facts aren’t the narrative MG’ly wants to portray, so he ignores them and carries on misrepresenting the situation. He’s either delusional, or he’s trying to be wilfully deceptive.

So once again, very few leave God and Jesus in the dust when they leave the Mormon Church.

The one thing I’ve learned about MG’ly is that when he asserts something as a fact, it’s usually nothing of the sort.

https://lds365.com/2024/02/29/results-o ... r-members/

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/2/9/ ... nal-faith/

https://bhroberts.org/2023CFLDS_Methodology_.pdf

More information is always better than less. Unfortunately there are some folks that don't believe that.

I maintain that what I've already written in this thread does NOT lack substance, but is something to be considered seriously. Jacob Hanson (video in first link of this thread) has it right in my opinion.

There will be naysayers.

Regards,
MG

[I Have Questions]

I maintain that what I've already written in this thread does NOT lack substance, but is something to be considered seriously. Jacob Hanson (video in first link of this thread) has it right in my opinion.

There will be naysayers.

Regards,
MG

Would you be so good as to support this assertion with some cold, hard facts (or non-facts) from his videos? Links, time stamps?

Otherwise, aren't you blowing hot air?

[Gadianton]

I would still maintain, that those that leave the church and lose their faith in God and become atheistic may have never had that connection with God and Jesus in the first place.

As a non-believer, I would maintain the very same. In fact, not only did those who leave never have a connection with God and Jesus to begin with, those who stay, stay, independent of never having a relationship with beings who don't exist. What does exist, is a culture that emphasizes having a relationship with God and Jesus independent of whether such a relationship is real. If NOBODY has a relationship with God and Jesus, Mormonism could go on exactly like it is, with everyone just saying that they have such a connection.

Consider this, MG, all it would take is a single Hindu having a connection with Vishnu in order either make your church completely false, or so different from what you believe it to be, that membership is mostly pointless. In order to have a connection with a supernatural being, the supernatural being must be real. In order for Mormonism to be true, Vishnu must be imaginary. If Vishnu is imaginary, then billions of Hindus, not merely a few million Mormons, mistakenly believe they have a connection to a supernatural being.

So before you tell me that the Church could never carry on as it does if no core members really have a connection to God and Jesus, consider that world religions much larger and longer lasting than your own have carried on, and do carry on, despite the implication from Mormon theology that their followers do not have connections to their believed-in deities.

[MG 2.0]

Aren't you leaning entirely on ChatGPT and Hansen here?

Like I said, we have a poster here who dedicated 3.5 hours of his life taking on Hansen point by point. Have you watched the video, MG?

I'm assuming you are referring to an RFM discussion on this particular presentation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coi2zBlUe1Q&t=122s

If so, please post the link with the time stamp where RFM is discussing Jacob's arguments in the particular presentation linked to at the beginning of the thread.

Regards,
MG

I think that the onus is on drumdude to pinpoint RFM's 'takedowns' of Jacob Hansen since he made the assertion that RFM did indeed take down Jacob Hansen. Earlier in the thread than the above post Morley had lumped in Jacob with other Mormon apologists as though they were all out of the same mold and made out of the same clay.

I think that is rather sloppy.

Regards,
MG