LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

[sock puppet]

No dodge.

Regards,
MG

So are you in mental decline then? This was clearly a dodge. Shall we take a vote?

I vote that he's intentionally obtuse.

[Marcus]

I would read my dad's Sunstone and Dialogue issues growing up in Southern California.

<snip>

Reading Sunstone and Dialogue did have an influence, I'm sure, on my later questioning, starting more or less while I was out on my mission.

For reference:

Sunstone Magazine first started publication in 1974
Dialogue Magazine first started publication in 1978

Here’s what you said above…

I do remember the time and place, however, when I heard about the change in the priesthood ordination policy and remember being excited for that. I was still single and living with roommates.

So in 1978 when Dialogue was first published, were you reading your Dad’s copy at home whilst growing up, or were you single and living with roommates? It can be neither, but it cannot be both. Lying? Memory issues?

Note: You are now on 5,139 posts, seemingly you’re in a hurry to catch Gadianton up…

If I recall correctly, the gymnast said he went on his mission in the early 70s. His stories fluctuate regularly to accommodate his justification of various Mormon positions. He's also said he didn't really think about what the position on blacks holding the priesthood meant. None of his stories are consistent.

[huckelberry]

In retrospect this gives you no pause? I guess you ignored all the Jim Crow laws and all the lynching events because you were swimming in the river of youth which insulated you from the organization that you believed/believe is divinely inspired? Some of that can be excused as ignorant but not now.

I skipped MG's meandering memories of his youthful limited engagement with the question.

Rivendale, I wonder what your thoughts were in, say, 1966 about your pointed question. I remember thinking Jim crow and lynching were a problem In the states of the former confederacy, not Salt Lake. I remember occasionally being disturbed by racial views expressed, but being a teenager I was not yet rejecting LDS authorities' view of priesthood. It is important to remember that there was a layer of racist assumption pervasive in America. I was becoming aware of reasons to question or reject those assumptions, but that was not a simple "flip a switch" change. I think for most any Mormon at that time church teaching created a fog about the issue. For me, I think I had leave the church to start seeing clearer about race relations in US.

I suspect that MG's fuzzy recollection reflects reality.

An aside, not for Rivendale, Dialogue started 1966. I remember my parents getting it. I looked at their website to confirm that timing. I do not remember it solving Mormon race problems.

[Rivendale]

In retrospect this gives you no pause? I guess you ignored all the Jim Crow laws and all the lynching events because you were swimming in the river of youth which insulated you from the organization that you believed/believe is divinely inspired? Some of that can be excused as ignorant but not now.

I skipped MG's meandering memories of his youthful limited engagement with the question.

Rivendale, I wonder what your thoughts were in, say, 1966 about your pointed question. I remember thinking Jim crow and lynching were a problem In the states of the former confederacy, not Salt Lake. I remember occasionally being disturbed by racial views expressed, but being a teenager I was not yet rejecting LDS authorities' view of priesthood. It is important to remember that there was a layer of racist assumption pervasive in America. I was becoming aware of reasons to question or reject those assumptions, but that was not a simple "flip a switch" change. I think for most any Mormon at that time church teaching created a fog about the issue. For me, I think I had leave the church to start seeing clearer about race relations in US.

I suspect that MG's fuzzy recollection reflects reality.

An aside, not for Rivendale, Dialogue started 1966. I remember my parents getting it. I looked at their website to confirm that timing. I do not remember it solving Mormon race problems.

I agree racial tensions were ubiquitous throughout the states with some states being worse than others. Look no further than the Lowry Nelson letters to see just how racist the institution was. Joseph Fielding Smith was interviewed in 1963 in Look Magazine and had this quote published:

I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the Negro. ‘Darkies’ are a wonderful people, and they have their place in our church.

But here is the rub. The church continued the ban while the rest of the world began to address many issues. The church including BYU ratcheted up its rhetoric. The federal government was forcing BYU to include minorities in their sports programs and faculty so they cleverly sent letters to prospective black athletes and telling them they wouldn't be happy there. It would take more than a decade after the ending of Jim Crow laws in 1964 for the church to end the temple and priesthood ban which I find telling. Other institutions were not excluded from the federal crackdown but they didn't claim they were guided by the one and only true church.

[I Have Questions]

An aside not for Rivendale Dialogue started 1966 .I remember my parents getting it.

My date of 1978 came from Wiki

Dialogue was an American art magazine founded and published in Akron, and later Columbus, Ohio. It covered the arts of Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, western Pennsylvania, Kentucky and northern Illinois.[1] Founded in 1978 by the artist Don Harvey and museum executive and former Artforum editor John Coplans,[1][2] it began having financial troubles in 2002, changed hands, and ceased publication entirely in June 2004.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_(magazine)

[huckelberry]

An aside, not for Rivendale, Dialogue started 1966. I remember my parents getting it.

My date of 1978 came from Wiki:

Dialogue was an American art magazine founded and published in Akron, and later Columbus, Ohio. It covered the arts of Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, western Pennsylvania, Kentucky and northern Illinois.[1] Founded in 1978 by the artist Don Harvey and museum executive and former Artforum editor John Coplans,[1][2] it began having financial troubles in 2002, changed hands, and ceased publication entirely in June 2004.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_(magazine)

I have a question, there was a Mormon-oriented magazine that started in 1966 called Dialogue. It discussed various Mormon issues. I'm sure that's different from the one you're looking at.

[MG 2.0]

I would read my dad's Sunstone and Dialogue issues growing up in Southern California.

<snip>

Reading Sunstone and Dialogue did have an influence, I'm sure, on my later questioning, starting more or less while I was out on my mission.

For reference:

Sunstone Magazine first started publication in 1974
Dialogue Magazine first started publication in 1978

Here’s what you said above…

I do remember the time and place, however, when I heard about the change in the priesthood ordination policy and remember being excited for that. I was still single and living with roommates.

So in 1978 when Dialogue was first published, were you reading your Dad’s copy at home whilst growing up, or were you single and living with roommates? It can be neither, but it cannot be both. Lying? Memory issues?

Note: You are now on 5,139 posts, seemingly you’re in a hurry to catch Gadianton up…

If you're correct on the chronological scale then it may have been post mission and thereafter. I thought I had recollection of my dad reading Sunstone and Dialogue which I know he did but my memories may run together over time. My dad actually presented at Sunstone a couple of times.

How old are you? (not that I expect an answer). Truth is, as time goes on time/memories can become intermixed especially when life is full of other things...work, family, church, etc. It you want to score some points on this, no problem. That seems to be your goal. No skin off my back.

Take down this old fart!

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

My date of 1978 came from Wiki

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_(magazine)

I have a question, there was a Mormon-oriented magazine that started in 1966 called Dialogue. It discussed various Mormon issues. I'm sure that's different from the one you're looking at.

I think you are correct. In any case, I am amazed Dialogue started that early. I wish I had known that decades and decades ago!!!!!!

[huckelberry]

MG your timing for reading the LDS magazine Dialogue was correct. It fits my memory. I looked it up; their website says it started in 1966.

I have a question, I found a later date for a different magazine also called Dialogue.

[I Have Questions]

My date of 1978 came from Wiki

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_(magazine)

I have a question, I found a later date for a different magazine also called Dialogue.

Got it, thanks!