Calling it "Politically Motivated"

[Gunnar]

And Whitehouse himself took almost a million dollars of "dark Money" from superPAC's in 24.

https://www.opensecrets.org/political-a ... ients/2024

I repeat:

And I still find Sheldon Whitehouse's presentations far more credible, telling and comprehensive than anything I have seen you present so far in your attempts to rebut him. The main thrust of your arguments seems to be attempts to accuse Democrats of doing something similar. I have already pointed out and chided you for the basic immaturity and un reasonability of that approach.

If that is basically all you can do, it is probably useless to continue with this discussion. I still admire and praise your Art thread, though!

[Gunnar]

Markk, you create a lot of No True Scotsman demands in your approach to issues. I don’t. I don’t think it really matters which party Powell belonged to because I care about policy. You think it is some kinda “gotcha” if he was a Democrat. He was a Democrat in a time when there was such a things as conservative Democrats. You are aware of that? So if a guy who was a Democrat then pursued a policy that Republicans today continue, that is really only a shock to the historically illiterate.

Excellent point!

By the way, how far have you gotten with The Scheme series of videos, and what do you think of them so far?

[Markk]

And Whitehouse himself took almost a million dollars of "dark Money" from superPAC's in 24.

https://www.opensecrets.org/political-a ... ients/2024

I repeat:

And I still find Sheldon Whitehouse's presentations far more credible, telling and comprehensive than anything I have seen you present so far in your attempts to rebut him. The main thrust of your arguments seems to be attempts to accuse Democrats of doing something similar. I have already pointed out and chided you for the basic immaturity and un reasonability of that approach.

If that is basically all you can do, it is probably useless to continue with this discussion. I still admire and praise your Art thread, though!

Gunnar, that is just a cop out. What is happening is that you are seeing that Whitehouse is just another politician, playing to his particular audience. Preaching one thing, and living another. Both sides do this, and it happens in government for a small city council persons, to congress, the senate, and the presidencies. You're trying to pin it all to a memo by a democrat justice in 1971, and spun by a dishonest senator, who himself took almost a million dollars in dark money for his senate campaign. You can believe what you will, but the facts do not support what you are asserting, not even close.

Gunnar: If that is basically all you can do, it is probably useless to continue with this discussion.

I bought the book and read it Gunnar. I am listening to the videos, and will continue to until. I research your assertions. I would hope you can do the same for mine.

I have asked you 4 times why the democrats took more dark money in 24, and honestly you need to think on why that is a tough thing to admit and discuss. Say that undressing Whitehouse's straw-man, and your blind allegiance to it is hardly immature. What is "immature," if that is correct word to use here, is you inability to look at all sides and to follow those out to a logical conclusion, which is that Whitehouse lied by omission, created a strawman, and is highly hypocritical, especially his taking dirty monies for his election and agendas.

[Markk]

Which is why elections matter. I Stated above how having the senate was key. We can go tit for tat on how party's cheat probably from the first elections and administrations.

I will assume you have not read the book, and back to my point that W-H is lying by omission, and has created a straw-man that some how the GOP scheme started with Powell's memo as a plan for the scheme, and then his being named to the the Supreme Court, as the GOP having their man in the Court....when in all reality and truth Powell was democrat.

No matter how you spin it, W-H is lying and suckering folks like Gunnar, and apparently yourself, to believe the GOP created some sort of scheme in 1971 to stack the current the Supreme Court.

It is just non-sense.

Markk, you create a lot of No True Scotsman demands in your approach to issues. I don’t. I don’t think it really matters which party Powell belonged to because I care about policy. You think it is some kinda “gotcha” if he was a Democrat. He was a Democrat in a time when there was such a things as conservative Democrats. You are aware of that? So if a guy who was a Democrat then pursued a policy that Republicans today continue, that is really only a shock to the historically illiterate.

Sure it does if it is implied he is a republican. It is not a gotcha, it is just a exposed fact, that the author obviously left out of his book and presentations, by omission. Your comments here are a word salad of just nonsense. Powell was a proponent for some very progressive decisions through out his career. He was a centrist and fair on others, and a fiscal conservative when writing the memo. He was not beholding to, or the GOP man in the the Supreme Court as Whitehouse claimed.


Maybe you can explain how them memo was a plan for the current make up for the court and how Powell was the leading reason for it? What policies did Powell pursue, that is exclusive to republicans today?

[Kishkumen]

Excellent point!

By the way, how far have you gotten with The Scheme series of videos, and what do you think of them so far?

I've watched 5 of them so far. It all seems pretty clear and convincing to me. It fits with the good work being done on dark money in politics in general. I don't know that anyone needs to wonder whether this is going on, only whether it is a good thing for rich people and corporations to control everything or not. I say not, but Markk, Ajax, and Hound seem to think it is wonderful.

[Kishkumen]

Sure it does if it is implied he is a republican. It is not a gotcha, it is just an exposed fact, that the author obviously left out of his book and presentations, by omission. Your comments he

I don't recall it being implied that he was a Republican. Maybe that is just something you assumed.

Your comments here are a word salad of just nonsense. Powell was a proponent for some very progressive decisions through out his career. He was a centrist and fair on others, and a fiscal conservative when writing the memo. He was not beholding to, or the GOP man in the the Supreme Court as Whitehouse claimed.

LOL! The other day, I heard some lefty say that "word salad" is the new MAGA populist insult that essentially translates into "I don't understand what you said, but it must be bad." I was a little skeptical because I had yet to see a slow MAGA person aim it at me or anyone I know. Thanks for confirming that.

So, Markk, what you are saying really does not matter. The idea that corporations should control the courts in regressive ways is not progressive, and Powell seems to have been all for it. As I said, try to break out of the two-party brain paralysis you have going on there. It is an epidemic that you manifest pretty clearly for our amusement and frustration. Just knock it off.

Finally, what is this phrase "beholding to"? Are you trying to say "beholden to"? I don't think anyone claimed he was beholden to the GOP or "their man." Please go read some history of American politics, where you will discover that there was in the past a much greater range of policy positions within the two parties until the '90s, when the two major parties were pulled apart and forced to be more doctrinaire. Gone are the days of the liberal Republicans and the conservative Democrats, with very few exceptions. Please, just read about it and stop spouting nonsense.

Maybe you can explain how them memo was a plan for the current make up for the court and how Powell was the leading reason for it? What policies did Powell pursue, that is exclusive to republicans today?

When you read it, it becomes clear pretty quickly that Powell was freaked out by the sixties and was seeing communists and fascists under every rock. Like many mid-twentieth century Americans, and, frankly, many Americans today, he does not understand the difference between a political system and an economic system. He sees Capitalism as being under attack, and he holds universities, journalism outlets, and other institutions at fault for this attack. I mean, Markk, it is all pretty standard sub-Red Scare garbage. His answer was to call upon corporate America to fight back, and what he probably did not see coming is that corporate America would end up being an even bigger enemy of free enterprise and the Constitution than all of the spoiled kids and liberal professors of his time.

[Markk]

Kish: I don't recall it being implied that he was a Republican. Maybe that is just something you assumed.

Well, this is the Title of the Book....

"THE SCHEME How the Right Wing Used Dark Money to Capture the Supreme Court Senator Sheldon Whitehouse with Jennifer Mueller"

Whitehouse, Sheldon. The Scheme: How the Right Wing Used Dark Money to Capture the Supreme Court (p. vi). The New Press. Kindle Edition.

Through out the book the right wing is referred as "they;" he wrote...

"They had a motive; they had a plan; and now they had a man [Powell]on the Court."

Whitehouse, Sheldon. The Scheme: How the Right Wing Used Dark Money to Capture the Supreme Court (p. 43). The New Press. Kindle Edition.

It the title of his book Kish.

Listen to the first 15 seconds of the first presentation of the series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAplGu1RxPg

In the second presentation listen to the first 8 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sy7yZov37I

So yes, it is safe to assume, he, by omission of Powell being a Democrat, almost forces one to believe Powell was a Republican. I did until I checked it out.

[Doctor Steuss]

I don't really have much of worth to add to the conversation, but for whatever it may be worth, the Martin-Quinn score of Supreme Court Justices has Powell conservative (fairly close on the graph to Neil Gorsuch). His percentage of voting "liberal" (on the Epstein/Martin/Nelson term report) is identical to Sandra Day O'Connor, and is more conservative than Brett Kavanaugh or Amy Coney Barrett. All of that analysis is probably unnecessary, given he was nominated by Richard Nixon.

[Gunnar]

Excellent point!

By the way, how far have you gotten with The Scheme series of videos, and what do you think of them so far?

I've watched 5 of them so far. It all seems pretty clear and convincing to me. It fits with the good work being done on dark money in politics in general. I don't know that anyone needs to wonder whether this is going on, only whether it is a good thing for rich people and corporations to control everything or not. I say not, but Markk, Ajax, and Hound seem to think it is wonderful.

How any reasonable people who are not already immensely wealthy (or even if they are) can possibly think that giving the wealthiest of the wealthy enormous tax cuts at the expense of cutting social security and health benefits to the least wealthy and most marginalized, and increasing the already enormous gap between the wealthy and the poorest of us is somehow a worthy idea or in any way just or moral completely boggles my mind! If this isn't insanely cruel and unjust, I don't know what is!

[Markk]

Kish: So, Markk, what you are saying really does not matter. The idea that corporations should control the courts in regressive ways is not progressive, and Powell seems to have been all for it. As I said, try to break out of the two-party brain paralysis you have going on there. It is an epidemic that you manifest pretty clearly for our amusement and frustration. Just knock it off.

LOl, Have you ever read your own posts Kish? Classic. You come across as a person that is highly frustrated with your own existence, and failures in your academic pursuit's. I am not sure what your field of study is, Icelandic peatmoss maybe , and your dissertation was about whether it was actually a moss or a lichen. I will guess you are also upset about having to sit at the little kids table, wanting to be recognized as a LDS apologist. Your failed podcast didn't help that I suppose, or Dr. Scratch putting it in his top ten happenings in LDS apologetics....what was it called again "whine with Kish?" My guess is that you found out a podcast is actually hard work, and to succeed, you might actually have to know what you are talking about and offer up something that is not about you and your insecure feelings.

Are you a happy person? It seems you struggle in that area? Aside from maybe Schmo, you are maybe the most hateful person on the board. But at least Schmo has a personality, and really funny wit.... and to be honest I would love to sit down and watch a football game with him and have a beer. I think we could be good friends. However, as much as I try to imagine a sit down with you, all I can imagine is discussing how the Ice Berg was not large enough for the Titanic, or that there wasn't enough hydrogen in the Hindenburg. I can also imagine that if you have tattoos, you would have Eeyore on one arm and George Constanza on the other, with Dr. Scratch and Dean Robbers on your butt cheeks.

But hey I concede I have two party brain paralysis, in fact big time. You actually hit that one on the head. As an registered Independent, I just can't seem to find those third and fourth parties making a difference, as mush as I try? Well, that might not be totally true, I did vote for Ross Perot, I had high hopes for him.

Kish if you want to just talk about each other and make it about each other, fine. I really don't like to do it, and I feel like I am taking advantage of you in that the fruit you offer hangs very low and is way too easy to pick....but the choice is yours. I would much rather discuss the book and his presentations at face value. Your call.

But back to topic if you can do so.

If you have read my posts you would understand that I am more than happy to concede most all politicians are liars and self serving, just as Whitehouse is preaching, using the title of his book ..., "THE SCHEME How the Right Wing Used Dark Money to Capture the Supreme Court. " while taking almost a million dollars in dark monies last year for his coffer.

How, in your opinion, is Powell "the man" in the the Supreme Court, for this right wing conspiracy? Any examples of how that leads to your assertion?

Love ya....