Trump and Harvard

[Gadianton]

But, you’ve apparently forgotten about when Res Ipsa and I took on one of this board’s more notable Holocaust deniers some years ago.

I remember that. Markk was all over that thread defending his Lord's chosen people along with you guys, right?

But where were you and Res when Markk started his thread attacking Tucker Carlson for having Darryl Cooper on his podcast and for his significantly sympathetic treatment of Darryl and his ideas?

[honorentheos]

As is typical, the Right is being manipulated.

https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/ ... tisemitism

[Markk]

Gunner, were they protesting the violence against the massacre? Where they protesting against Hamas? Where they protesting against Hamas for using innocent Palestinian men, women, and children as human shields? Storing weapons in public places, even schools. Booby trapping buildings, etc..., or are they just demonstrating Israel and Jews?

If you want to get into detail on this let me know.

# war sucks.

Why do you keep misspelling my name?

If they are not also opposed to those things, they should be. I acknowledge that. But it still remains true that their opposition to IDF atrocities and war crimes in Gaza is justified. Remember that many of both Jews and non-Jews are justly opposed to IDF and Israeli government directed atrocities in Gaza--not just Palestinians. This is not antisemitism.

Sorry for misspelling your name. Lol, there is a history of people doing the same to me, but rest assured I did not do it on purpose.

They are not demonstrating any of those things, and neither do you. They are not even so much opposing IDF specifically as they are opposing Israel as a state. The River from the Sea has a direct meaning. It does not just include the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. That is antisemitism, and that is what has happened on several of our college campuses, as they're not allowing Jews access to certain areas of campus.

[Gunnar]

Why do you keep misspelling my name?

If they are not also opposed to those things, they should be. I acknowledge that. But it still remains true that their opposition to IDF atrocities and war crimes in Gaza is justified. Remember that many of both Jews and non-Jews are justly opposed to IDF and Israeli government directed atrocities in Gaza--not just Palestinians. This is not antisemitism.

Sorry for misspelling your name. Lol, there is a history of people doing the same to me, but rest assured I did not do it on purpose.

They are not demonstrating any of those things, and neither do you. They are not even so much opposing IDF specifically as they are opposing Israel as a state. The River from the Sea has a direct meaning. It does not just include the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. That is antisemitism, and that is what has happened on several of our college campuses, as they're not allowing Jews access to certain areas of campus.

Considering what the state of Israel is now doing to them; I can hardly blame them for opposing Israel as a state. Can you? I can only reemphasize that opposing the atrocities that the IDF is committing under the direction and command of the Israeli government is not equivalent to antisemitism, no matter what you say! I will concede, though, that not allowing Jews access to certain areas of campus, simply because they're Jews, is antisemitic.

[Markk]

Sorry for misspelling your name. Lol, there is a history of people doing the same to me, but rest assured I did not do it on purpose.

They are not demonstrating any of those things, and neither do you. They are not even so much opposing IDF specifically as they are opposing Israel as a state. The River from the Sea has a direct meaning. It does not just include the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. That is antisemitism, and that is what has happened on several of our college campuses, as they're not allowing Jews access to certain areas of campus.

Considering what the state of Israel is now doing to them; I can hardly blame them for opposing Israel as a state. Can you? I can only reemphasize that opposing the atrocities that the IDF is committing under the direction and command of the Israeli government is not equivalent to antisemitism, no matter what you say! I will concede, though, that not allowing Jews access to certain areas of campus, simply because they're Jews, is antisemitic.

You are conflating a whole lotta things here Gunnar. And leaving out a lot of history.

Do you believe Hamas is antisemitic as a group?

[Marcus]

... But, you’ve apparently forgotten about when Res Ipsa and I took on one of this board’s more notable Holocaust deniers some years ago...

Ahem. Just a minor point, but you, Res Ipsa, and quite a few others took on that Holocaust denier.

(And, as a consequence, that poster ran to Dan Peterson and leaked to him a name, location, employer and occupation of who they thought was posting about Dan's plagiarism and also standing up to Smokey here about his neo-nazi views. They found the perfect patsy, because even though the information they had was wrong, Peterson was more than happy to doxx that person on his blog.)

Anyway, end of derail. Back to the topic.

[canpakes]

... But, you’ve apparently forgotten about when Res Ipsa and I took on one of this board’s more notable Holocaust deniers some years ago...

Ahem. Just a minor point, but you, Res Ipsa, and quite a few others took on that Holocaust denier.

(And, as a consequence, that poster ran to Dan Peterson and leaked to him a name, location, employer and occupation of who they thought was posting about Dan's plagiarism and also standing up to Smokey here about his neo-nazi views. They found the perfect patsy, because even though the information they had was wrong, Peterson was more than happy to doxx that person on his blog.)

Anyway, end of derail. Back to the topic.

Actually, that’s a right proper derail. It was a group effort, and you were a target singled out by both.

I followed the resulting developments on Dan’s blog as well, but that’s all that I want to say about that. I just hope that these sorts of incidents are very few and far between.

[Gunnar]

Considering what the state of Israel is now doing to them; I can hardly blame them for opposing Israel as a state. Can you? I can only reemphasize that opposing the atrocities that the IDF is committing under the direction and command of the Israeli government is not equivalent to antisemitism, no matter what you say! I will concede, though, that not allowing Jews access to certain areas of campus, simply because they're Jews, is antisemitic.

You are conflating a whole lotta things here Gunnar. And leaving out a lot of history.

I don't agree! And I am well aware of the history about the conflicts between the Palestinians and the establishment of present day Isreal. I discussed this previously in this thread: It is important, I think, to recognize that both sides in the conflicts between Israel and Hamas have been guilty of intolerance, hatred and egregious behavior towards each other. What both sides (and the world in general) need is much more of this: Who are the Palestinian and Jewish-led groups leading the protests against Israel’s action in Gaza?. As stated in the above article,

“We cannot and will not say today’s actions by Palestinian militants are unprovoked,” the group said on Oct. 7. “The strangling siege on Gaza is a provocation. Settlers terrorizing entire Palestinian villages, soldiers raiding and demolishing Palestinian homes. … These are the provocations of the most extreme right-wing government in Israel’s history.”

Be clear, though, that despite that, I am not claiming that the atrocities of October 7 are in any way excusable. It should never have happened, and the perpetrators still deserve the severest condemnation and punishment.

Do you believe Hamas is antisemitic as a group?

Of course they are (at least antisemitic towards one particular semitic group -- don't forget that Arabs are also semitic). But, nevertheless, despite
that, neither that fact nor the history you think I have not considered, the fact still remains that protesting the genocide and war crimes perpetrated at the direction of the state of Israel is not antisemitic, no matter what you say or think!

[Markk]

Morley,

Is this the thread you were referring to in our current conversation?

Thanks

It is indeed.

So in reading through it quickly, looking only at your posts....

You wrote...

Though it's not really germane to the election, I couldn't help but see the debate from the viewpoint of the international community. The purported most powerful nation on Earth is in the throes of an election, and each major party is represented by an elderly man, neither of whom could coherently express a complete thought. At one point, they degenerated to trading unintelligible barbs about their respective golf games.

The problem was that Trump lived up to expectations, while Biden was clearly diminished. Trump preformed as predicted: He was a bombastic, prevaricating asswipe, who whined and deflected on the simplest of questions. But because the bar was set so low, all Trump had to do was to keep from taking a dump on stage. That Biden was unable to call him out on most of it, and that Biden came across as an elderly great-grandfather who was out of his depth, was devastating. He looked like a old man who was trying to keep focused on what was being said at Thanksgiving Dinner. It was a true Michael-Dukakis-perched-in-a-tank moment. Virtually any other Democratic politician would have done better.

The problem is--what happens next? The last time that there was a late switch in US presidential candidates was in 1968, when Lyndon Johnson stepped out of the running. That did not end well for Democrats. I still think Biden needs to bow out.

Are you asserting these groups, leading the protests against Israel are all free of anti-sigmatism's? Are you? You are quick to accuse Israel of all sorts of genocide, and then just casually say, yes Hamas is bad.

If these, and other groups are concerned about both Israel and Hamas, we should see a balanced "protest".....correct?

Gunnar: Be clear, though, that despite that, I am not claiming that the atrocities of October 7 are in any way excusable. It should never have happened, and the perpetrators still deserve the severest condemnation and punishment.

Then we will see threads here about your hatred for these terrorists that are a root cause of this conflict.

Tell me about the October 7th attack, and what occurred. In you opinion, what should have been Israel's response?

Gunnar: Of course they are (at least antisemitic towards one particular semitic group -- don't forget that Arabs are also semitic). But, nevertheless, despite that, neither that fact nor the history you think I have not considered, the fact still remains that protesting the genocide and war crimes perpetrated at the direction of the state of Israel is not antisemitic, no matter what you say or think!

We both understand what the term antisemitism means in context with the subject. Moving forward, keep that in mind.

If at a demonstration, if those demonstrators carry signs and chant "from the river to the sea," is that antisemitic.

Markk, if you are trying to link antisemitism into this thread - seemingly out of nowhere - it will be better if I move your redirection to the ‘Harvard’ thread.

(Moved to 159747 at 11:35 MST 06.07.25) -c-

[Morley]

So in reading through it quickly, looking only at your posts....

You wrote...

Though it's not really germane to the election, I couldn't help but see the debate from the viewpoint of the international community. The purported most powerful nation on Earth is in the throes of an election, and each major party is represented by an elderly man, neither of whom could coherently express a complete thought. At one point, they degenerated to trading unintelligible barbs about their respective golf games.

The problem was that Trump lived up to expectations, while Biden was clearly diminished. Trump preformed as predicted: He was a bombastic, prevaricating asswipe, who whined and deflected on the simplest of questions. But because the bar was set so low, all Trump had to do was to keep from taking a dump on stage. That Biden was unable to call him out on most of it, and that Biden came across as an elderly great-grandfather who was out of his depth, was devastating. He looked like a old man who was trying to keep focused on what was being said at Thanksgiving Dinner. It was a true Michael-Dukakis-perched-in-a-tank moment. Virtually any other Democratic politician would have done better.

The problem is--what happens next? The last time that there was a late switch in US presidential candidates was in 1968, when Lyndon Johnson stepped out of the running. That did not end well for Democrats. I still think Biden needs to bow out.

Are you asserting these groups, leading the protests against Israel are all free of anti-sigmatism's? Are you? You are quick to accuse Israel of all sorts of genocide, and then just casually say, yes Hamas is bad.

If these, and other groups are concerned about both Israel and Hamas, we should see a balanced "protest".....correct?

What does my summary of the debate have to do with Hamas, Israel, and so-called "anti-sigmatism's"?

What's going on with you, Markk?