WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

[Morley]

Progressively focusing on increasingly insignificant details. Somewhere here there is a point where I am right and you are wrong.

Again, you've nailed it.



I do this too often, myself. Here and real life.

[Bret Ripley]

Somewhere here there is a point where I am right and you are wrong.

As it is written. World without end.

[Markk]

Progressively focusing on increasingly insignificant details. Somewhere here there is a point where I am right and you are wrong.

LOl, welcome to DiscussMormonism.com....although I think it is a rather important detail, but for a insignificant reason to those here....if that makes any sense.

Out of sheer curiosity, what did you learn, or re-learn, from this thread, whether by something you read, or by your own "study," or from a link or rabbit trail study that branched off of it?

I can't count the things I have re-learned or learned, there have been many.

[Morley]

I can't count the things I have re-learned or learned, there have been many.

Don't tease, Markk. Tell us a few of them.

[Gadianton]

Anyone including Markk would learn more by an A.I. reading wiki articles about WW2. The question is what is learned that couldn't have been learned elsewhere? The answer is things like, Churchill was worse than Hitler, gassing prisoners was a humane solution to a problem that wasn't the Nazis fault. All alt-Right culture war stuff.

[Markk]

I can't count the things I have re-learned or learned, there have been many.

Don't tease, Markk. Tell us a few of them.

Sure. In no particular order as they pop into my head.

1. In Leningrad Chaps post about the seeds. I don't remember ever reading about that, and as time permits I plan to read about that a bit. And that in the spring, in those 900 days, every possible place to have a garden in the city was utilized, and cabbage was a crop of choice and a actually symbol of perseverance. https://www.prlib.ru/en/item/805002
2. In Leningrad, the rats got so bad, because they ate all the cats and dogs, that in the spring the Russians brought in thousands of cats, in attempts to mitigate the epidemic.
3. In Leningrad, even to this day in St. Petersburg, there are still signs on the buildings that say to walk "this side of the street" in that because of the German gun positions, it was safer to do so.
4. Army group north history until their final defeats in 1945. They were the "red headed step child" of all the eastern armies. Yet given their lack of respect and lack of help, they were a formable force until the end.
5. In Army group central at the battle of Kiev. The Russians were in scorched earth mode as they retreated, yet, they left key buildings untouched knowing that German command centers would occupy these buildings. The Russian strategically place timed demo charges in walls and other discrete places, on weeks delays. They when they went off they killed officers. A lot of them, so much so that this may have been the reason that Hitler stopped the attack on Leningrad, as went into siege mode.
6. A reminder, reading the specifics again, of just how bad Hitler screwed up the attack east in regard to just not knowing what he was doing as a strategist, that he actually thought the German army was going to take Leningrad, Moscow, and the southern oil field in two months or so, and before winter. His top General wanted to concentrate on Moscow, with strong flanks....then sit out and regroup during the winter for a strong spring offensive.
7. I still need to read more on this, but I always believed that Stalin for two weeks went bonkers with a emotional breakdown after Hitler broke the agreement and invaded Russia....many authors have that opinion, but I heard on a doc, that actually he was in deep meeting for two weeks with his staff planning a counter offensive....I want top read more on this.
9. Nuances with the Madagascar plans and the British plans of Zionism for the Jews...more reading for sure on this, but interesting. Hitler. I think, supported this in some ways, but not in others, again I think, I want to read more about it.
10. The real threat of Russian and Japanese tensions, and how it affected their eastern borders and later after Japan was getting waxed by the allies, it freed the eastern troops to reinforce the lines and make a huge difference at Stalingrad and the push for Berlin.