YouTuber Alyssa Grenfell Has Cost The Church 2.4 Million Dollars

[MG 2.0]

I don’t see how the LDS Church is a cult. Too many members ignore the leaders and have wide latitude to do what they want. It is definitely a high-demand religion. Cult? No.

Finally, someone who can recognize that LDS folks are not a bunch of lemmings.

Regards,
MG

[Rivendale]

I don’t see how the LDS Church is a cult. Too many members ignore the leaders and have wide latitude to do what they want. It is definitely a high-demand religion. Cult? No.

Finally, someone who can recognize that LDS folks are not a bunch of lemmings.

Regards,
MG

A plague of lemmings...ftfy

[Mag’ladroth]

MG, you often argue for two different things, while treating them as if they are inseparable:

1. An undeniable witness of God's love and His presence in their lives.
2. A belief that the Book of Mormon is actual history.

I’d imagine that If someone left the Church because they couldn’t buy into the second item, it doesn’t mean that the first item can’t remain true for them.

I agree. I don't know much about Alyssa Grenfell. I've watch one or two of her videos. Did she retain her belief/faith in Jesus Christ?

In the case of Lynn Wilder she appears to have remained a Christian after leaving BYU and the LDS faith. This is an example of where agency to choose reigns supreme. In my opinion God loves ALL His children and will bless them according to their faith. I don't think He automatically curses and/or judges someone unworthy if they transition from one faith community to another. Or no faith community at all. I do think that God is saddened and disappointed, however, if one of His children comes out in open rebellion against Him or His Son. But judging that is in His wheelhouse, not mine.

Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a disservice by leading people away from their covenants made with the Lord. Whether these cases/folks are examples of "Judge them not, for they know not what they do" or something other than that...I don't know. And again, it's not my place to lay final judgement on anyone. Even some folks on this board who are quite irritating .

Regards,
MG

Those covenants would have to be valid in the first place. Those covenants find no basis in Judaism nor Christianity. They exist solely in the mind of Joseph Smith and his commiserators.

[malkie]

MG, you often argue for two different things, while treating them as if they are inseparable:

1. An undeniable witness of God's love and His presence in their lives.
2. A belief that the Book of Mormon is actual history.

I’d imagine that If someone left the Church because they couldn’t buy into the second item, it doesn’t mean that the first item can’t remain true for them.

I agree. I don't know much about Alyssa Grenfell. I've watch one or two of her videos. Did she retain her belief/faith in Jesus Christ?

In the case of Lynn Wilder she appears to have remained a Christian after leaving BYU and the LDS faith. This is an example of where agency to choose reigns supreme. In my opinion God loves ALL His children and will bless them according to their faith. I don't think He automatically curses and/or judges someone unworthy if they transition from one faith community to another. Or no faith community at all. I do think that God is saddened and disappointed, however, if one of His children comes out in open rebellion against Him or His Son. But judging that is in His wheelhouse, not mine.

Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a disservice by leading people away from their covenants made with the Lord. Whether these cases/folks are examples of "Judge them not, for they know not what they do" or something other than that...I don't know. And again, it's not my place to lay final judgement on anyone. Even some folks on this board who are quite irritating .

Regards,
MG

Another point of view, equally valid, is that Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a great service by leading people away from false covenants made with the Mormon church. In some cases, for example, they are ensuring that people who have joined the Mormon church understand that they are worshipping a Jesus with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical Jesus, and a god (the father) with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical god.

[I Have Questions]

I agree. I don't know much about Alyssa Grenfell. I've watch one or two of her videos. Did she retain her belief/faith in Jesus Christ?

In the case of Lynn Wilder she appears to have remained a Christian after leaving BYU and the LDS faith. This is an example of where agency to choose reigns supreme. In my opinion God loves ALL His children and will bless them according to their faith. I don't think He automatically curses and/or judges someone unworthy if they transition from one faith community to another. Or no faith community at all. I do think that God is saddened and disappointed, however, if one of His children comes out in open rebellion against Him or His Son. But judging that is in His wheelhouse, not mine.

Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a disservice by leading people away from their covenants made with the Lord. Whether these cases/folks are examples of "Judge them not, for they know not what they do" or something other than that...I don't know. And again, it's not my place to lay final judgement on anyone. Even some folks on this board who are quite irritating .

Regards,
MG

Another point of view, equally valid, is that Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a great service by leading people away from false covenants made with the Mormon church. In some cases, for example, they are ensuring that people who have joined the Mormon church understand that they are worshipping a Jesus with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical Jesus, and a god (the father) with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical god.

I agree. MG 2.0 is only taking issue with Alyssa for tribal reasons. She’s left and is critical of the religious sect that MG 2.0 was born into and raised within. Had he been born into a Scientologist family he’d take equal umbrage with Leah Remini. He is blind to that obvious fact though.

[MG 2.0]

Another point of view, equally valid, is that Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a great service by leading people away from false covenants made with the Mormon church. In some cases, for example, they are ensuring that people who have joined the Mormon church understand that they are worshipping a Jesus with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical Jesus, and a god (the father) with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical god.

I agree. MG 2.0 is only taking issue with Alyssa for tribal reasons. She’s left and is critical of the religious sect that MG 2.0 was born into and raised within. Had he been born into a Scientologist family he’d take equal umbrage with Leah Remini. He is blind to that obvious fact though.

It's a bit frustrating when you continue to come to conclusions that aren't true. I don't know that there is a way to convince you otherwise.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I agree. I don't know much about Alyssa Grenfell. I've watch one or two of her videos. Did she retain her belief/faith in Jesus Christ?

In the case of Lynn Wilder she appears to have remained a Christian after leaving BYU and the LDS faith. This is an example of where agency to choose reigns supreme. In my opinion God loves ALL His children and will bless them according to their faith. I don't think He automatically curses and/or judges someone unworthy if they transition from one faith community to another. Or no faith community at all. I do think that God is saddened and disappointed, however, if one of His children comes out in open rebellion against Him or His Son. But judging that is in His wheelhouse, not mine.

Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a disservice by leading people away from their covenants made with the Lord. Whether these cases/folks are examples of "Judge them not, for they know not what they do" or something other than that...I don't know. And again, it's not my place to lay final judgement on anyone. Even some folks on this board who are quite irritating .

Regards,
MG

Those covenants would have to be valid in the first place. Those covenants find no basis in Judaism nor Christianity. They exist solely in the mind of Joseph Smith and his commiserators.

Covenants play a central role in both ancient Judaism and Christianity.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I agree. I don't know much about Alyssa Grenfell. I've watch one or two of her videos. Did she retain her belief/faith in Jesus Christ?

In the case of Lynn Wilder she appears to have remained a Christian after leaving BYU and the LDS faith. This is an example of where agency to choose reigns supreme. In my opinion God loves ALL His children and will bless them according to their faith. I don't think He automatically curses and/or judges someone unworthy if they transition from one faith community to another. Or no faith community at all. I do think that God is saddened and disappointed, however, if one of His children comes out in open rebellion against Him or His Son. But judging that is in His wheelhouse, not mine.

Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a disservice by leading people away from their covenants made with the Lord. Whether these cases/folks are examples of "Judge them not, for they know not what they do" or something other than that...I don't know. And again, it's not my place to lay final judgement on anyone. Even some folks on this board who are quite irritating .

Regards,
MG

Another point of view, equally valid, is that Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a great service by leading people away from false covenants made with the Mormon church. In some cases, for example, they are ensuring that people who have joined the Mormon church understand that they are worshipping a Jesus with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical Jesus, and a god (the father) with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical god.

To me it's a question of how deeply her previous testimony entered into her heart and mind. She initially had issues with gender roles, marriage expectations, and personal autonomy, as well as her own experiences dealing with shame, indoctrination, and struggles with mental health while a member. There is more to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its theology/doctrine than these personal grievances.

Regards,
MG

[malkie]

Another point of view, equally valid, is that Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a great service by leading people away from false covenants made with the Mormon church. In some cases, for example, they are ensuring that people who have joined the Mormon church understand that they are worshipping a Jesus with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical Jesus, and a god (the father) with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical god.

To me it's a question of how deeply her previous testimony entered into her heart and mind. She initially had issues with gender roles, marriage expectations, and personal autonomy, as well as her own experiences dealing with shame, indoctrination, and struggles with mental health while a member. There is more to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its theology/doctrine than these personal grievances.

Regards,
MG

To be clear, you said above that it's not your place to judge. Is this comment an example of you not judging?

[I Have Questions]

Another point of view, equally valid, is that Alyssa Grenfell, along with others, are doing a great service by leading people away from false covenants made with the Mormon church. In some cases, for example, they are ensuring that people who have joined the Mormon church understand that they are worshipping a Jesus with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical Jesus, and a god (the father) with characteristics that differ from those of the Biblical god.

To me it's a question of how deeply her previous testimony entered into her heart and mind. She initially had issues with gender roles, marriage expectations, and personal autonomy, as well as her own experiences dealing with shame, indoctrination, and struggles with mental health while a member. There is more to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its theology/doctrine than these personal grievances.

Regards,
MG

That is a gross misrepresentation of Alyssa’s journey.

I wasn’t just your average Mormon. I was Ultra Mormon. My upbringing was deeply devout—church every Sunday, whether we were home or on vacation, four years of Seminary, leadership positions in the Youth Organization, Brigham Young University (BYU) education, a full-time mission, temple marriage, and even a stint as a temple worker.

For most of my life, I truly believed. I believed so deeply that I never thought there would come a day when that belief would dissolve entirely.

The thing that really started her escape from the brainwashing she’d received since being born?

After six months of deep soul-searching, researching, and questioning, I found myself back in church, desperately hoping for something—anything—to reignite my faith. I wanted to believe. I wanted to feel what I used to feel. So I went back, sat through Sacrament Meeting, and then made my way to Relief Society.

That Sunday, the Relief Society president made an announcement that felt almost tailor-made for my final test of faith: “Today, instead of our planned lesson, we’ll be sharing testimonies about Joseph Smith.”

Joseph Smith. The one topic that had been gnawing at my conscience. By this point, I had read too much, learned too much. I knew about his secret marriages, his manipulation of young girls, his disturbing polygamous practices.

I’m guessing MG did a quick skimming an AI response and simply regurgitated brief bits that stood out to him.