The Christians really believed that Christ would come again in their day (generation) because that was the original claim:
Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. (Mark 9:1)
So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: (1 Cor 1:7)
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. (1 Cor 11:26)
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? (1 Thes 2:19)
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (1 Thes 4:15)
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thes 5:23)
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thes 1:10)
For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. (Heb 10:37)
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. (James 5:7)
Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. (James 5:8)
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. (1 John 2:28)
But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. (Rev 2:25)
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. (Rev 3:3)
The Christians really believed that Christ would come again in their day (generation) because that was the original claim:
I agree with you here, Paul. And a preterist has a strong argument that it did happen, especially in light of Josephus.
My hesitation is the “all things.”
When Jesus says “all these things” in Matthew 24:34, do you understand that to include the judgment described in Matthew 25? If so, why? If not, where do you see the transition?
The Christians really believed that Christ would come again in their day (generation) because that was the original claim:
I agree with you here, Paul.
I wonder if LittleNipper does as well? You know that Christians are a very divided people and do not always agree. Maybe that is why there are so many Christian churches? Something for everyone.
The blunt answer is no, I can’t point to a verse that states that outright.
But I’m not quite ready to go full preterist because there are still passages that mention the resurrection of the dead, a final judgment, and the renewal of creation.
Well, there's no reason to go full preterist. There is another option: accepting that the coming asserted in the text is a failed prophecy. Either Jesus was a false prophet, or the writers of the gospels were putting false prophecies into his mouth.
I can’t argue that Matthew proves two distinct comings, but I’m not persuaded it proves there is only one.
No offense, but that's a rather odd way of assessing evidence. If there is no evidence that expressly indicates multiple comings, why would you worry about the text proving there is isn't multiple comings... unless you have a prior commitments to a particular outcome. If the author had a single coming in mind s/he, as the text indicates on its face, s/he wouldn't have been concerned about providing evidence against multiple comings. At any rate, if you can find anything that evinces multiple comings, I'm all ears.
I wonder if LittleNipper does as well? You know that Christians are a very divided people and do not always agree. Maybe that is why there are so many Christian churches? Something for everyone.
I don’t know. I’m not even sure I care if everyone agrees about everything. It’s really a personal belief for me, and I don’t feel compelled to make everyone agree with me.
The blunt answer is no, I can’t point to a verse that states that outright.
But I’m not quite ready to go full preterist because there are still passages that mention the resurrection of the dead, a final judgment, and the renewal of creation.
Well, there's no reason to go full preterist. There is another option: accepting that the coming asserted in the text is a failed prophecy. Either Jesus was a false prophet, or the writers of the gospels were putting false prophecies into his mouth.
I can’t argue that Matthew proves two distinct comings, but I’m not persuaded it proves there is only one.
No offense, but that's a rather odd way of assessing evidence. If there is no evidence that expressly indicates multiple comings, why would you worry about the text proving there is isn't multiple comings... unless you have a prior commitments to a particular outcome. If the author had a single coming in mind s/he, as the text indicates on its face, s/he wouldn't have been concerned about providing evidence against multiple comings. At any rate, if you can find anything that evinces multiple comings, I'm all ears.
I think the “either/or” is too simplistic.
The “multiple comings” in my mind is related to a prophetic pattern that telescopes fulfillment—I have given examples earlier. I also think Matthew 24/25 represents a shift. I’m not sure the evidence has to expressly indicate multiple comings, any more than the lack of that explicit statement settles anything—that understanding could come from an interpretation of the text, with an understanding that Jesus was answering two distinct but related questions.
I’m not sure why you think I have some prior commitment to a particular outcome, but I’m really glad for the opportunity to discuss such difficult things. You won’t get this kind of tussle at a Sunday school I’d wager. I’d ask that question back though, is there some reason that Jesus “must” be a false prophet?
Yes, Jesus could have been a false prophet, or there could have been some backwards engineering, but I pointed out earlier that that approach would come with its own set of problems.
Last edited by Limnor on Fri Jun 26, 2026 1:07 am, edited 3 times in total.
The Christians really believed that Christ would come again in their day (generation) because that was the original claim:
My hesitation is the “all things.”
When Jesus says “all these things” in Matthew 24:34, do you understand that to include the judgment described in Matthew 25? If so, why? If not, where do you see the transition?
YES.
The Olivet Discourse given by Jesus outlined prophecies (including worldly judgement) that was soon to take place; chapter 25 continued the sermon and began with, “Then shall the kingdom...” Jesus continued to prophesy and said,
“Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” (25:13)
“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:” 25:31
Jesus continued his sermon by providing the parable of the sheep and goats and how the King would judge the whole world: “And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:” (25:32)
THEN:
“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:” 25:34
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
When Jesus says “all these things” in Matthew 24:34, do you understand that to include the judgment described in Matthew 25? If so, why? If not, where do you see the transition?
YES.
The Olivet Discourse given by Jesus outlined prophecies (including worldly judgement) that was soon to take place; chapter 25 continued the sermon and began with, “Then shall the kingdom...” Jesus continued to prophesy and said,
“Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” (25:13)
“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:” 25:31
Jesus continued his sermon by providing the parable of the sheep and goats and how the King would judge the whole world: “And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:” (25:32)
THEN:
“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:” 25:34
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
Ok thanks. From that view, yes, I’d say “all those things” were not fulfilled.
Is it possible that there is a shift there? Answering the two questions “when will the temple be destroyed” and “when is the end of the age?”
I know not everyone reads it that way, but it seems like a legitimate interpretation. That’s essentially the partial-preterist position.
