anti-christ discussion, from middle p. 3 to end.

[honorentheos]

I think it is through him the good of all generation may in eternity be shared.

Why?

[huckelberry]

I think it is through him the good of all generation may in eternity be shared.

Why?

Why in the world not???

Honorentheos, it is quite possible I am not understanding the point or direction of your question.

[honorentheos]

I think it is through him the good of all generation may in eternity be shared.

Why?

Why in the world not???

Honorentheos, it is quite possible I am not understanding the point or direction of your question.

Why do you think the above is possible through Christ? Or, why do you think anything might occur through Christ? In the case above there is an "ultimate purpose of the universe" aspect to what you believe is made possible through Christ. Why do you believe that?

[huckelberry]

I think it is through him the good of all generation may in eternity be shared.


Why in the world not???

Honorentheos, it is quite possible I am not understanding the point or direction of your question.

Why do you think the above is possible through Christ? Or, why do you think anything might occur through Christ? In the case above there is an "ultimate purpose of the universe" aspect to what you believe is made possible through Christ. Why do you believe that?

Honoretheos,
I thought we were speaking of the function of the idea that Jesus is the Christ has in Christianity. It would be possible to think about that whether considering the Christ myth as real or just amythical outgrowth of the death of a jewish fellow caught up in utopian thought and dreams. Of course if he actually is a human embodiment the eternal power that created the universe his actions would have a broader more lasting meaning. In that view people live in some way into eternity. That is a lot of room for the interrelationships of people and generations to mature and complete. If it is just myth and death is the end the awareness of the importance of peoples interrelationships remains. Jesus life and teachings still stand to illuminate the importance of that for us all.

I do not have a view to the ultimate purpose of the universe. I was looking to the potentials for the human family.I think interrelationships are essential to our being. Even in our most competitive dimension we are much stronger when respecting our relationships with others.Obviously this is not exclusive to Christians, the very point is that it is not exclusive. Christians have been asked to lead, they do not always do that. The myth can lead even when people fail, (John Browns body lies a mouldering in the grave but the truth is marching on)

It is obviously true that people everywhere know of the importance of interrelationships, It is also true that people betray that importance in a variety of ways, small and monstrous. People have all sorts of justifications. The saviour is one willing to suffer to stand against those, stand against power and corruption.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hunter Biden,

Why is Christ a better vehicle toward that aim than the Buddha?

- Doc

[honorentheos]

Why do you think the above is possible through Christ? Or, why do you think anything might occur through Christ? In the case above there is an "ultimate purpose of the universe" aspect to what you believe is made possible through Christ. Why do you believe that?

Honoretheos,
I thought we were speaking of the function of the idea that Jesus is the Christ has in Christianity.

I wasn't clear in my comments, then, as I meant to step out to consider the idea of a Christ and its effects on humanity as a whole. And doing so by starting with where it originated outside of Christianity within the problem faced by Israel and Judah in finding themselves conquered and subjugated by nations that were supposedly pagan. Christ as understood in Christianity didn't erase this history or the form even if some Christians believe that by claiming Jesus was a teacher of love it sanitizes the Christ from, well, being Christ.

You talk above about Christ representing or embodying certain concepts to influence relationships. But really, if this is all that he is then why do we need Christ except as a placebo to convince people to behave in a way they might not choose otherwise?

We see folks such as MG and Dr. Peterson talk about God belief as a necessity to prevent people from essentially disregarding others in favor of their own interests. This argument, and the way I read most Christians who talk about Christ as embodying moral behaviors, including treating others well, maintains that Christ provides something that otherwise wouldn't be achievable. Yet the most direct teaching in the New Testament along those lines originated with a Jewish theologian in the decades before Jesus is supposed to have lived. And it was included in teachings attributed to Confucius five centuries before. That what you'd not have done to you, do not unto others.

If we reduced Jesus to one of many forms of wisdom teaching, and jettisoned the idea of a Christ being necessary, I could be onboard with that. Jesus in concept is all of the things you describe as being attributes of Christ. But they aren't. Christ, the Christ as originally imagined and as taught by Jesus in the Son of Man, was a conquering champion of a God who favored a certain people over others, and who would vanquish as well as save.

Truth is, i think you're anti Christ, too. You just don't see that the things you would trim from Christianity originate in the concept of Christ as Christ.

As an aside, I've mentioned on the old board before that I do believe in the value of moral myth and exemplars. One of mine is the Japanese swordsman Miyamoto Musashi. The fictional biography of Musashi written by Eiji Yoshikawa is one of the books I've reread more than any other book. The Book of Mormon is probably at the top but that was because I bought into the idea one should read it yearly. Anyway. The mythological telling of Musashi's life embodies concepts of personal growth, dedication to excellence, and stoic commitment that I appreciate. I regularly revisit the Dokkodo and Book of Five Rings when I want to find a virtue to contemplate and work on. But you know what else I believe? The historical Musashi was a sociopath and hardly worthy of emulation at all. I don't imagine the fictional telling of Musashi's life reflects the real person and I don't need it to in order to pull lessons from it or admire the figure in it that I sincerely find value in touching on to find ways to live better. Some might argue that this could also apply to Joseph Smith. And I suppose it could. But not in the way folks like MG might claim, where the gulf between idealized and historic person does not include condemnation of the historic person's very real, very damaging flaws. Or imagining that Smith was channeling divine revelation that is still maintained and provides authority to the Church that was left behind. That's not grappling with the reality of the situation so much as giving it lip service to avoid doing so.

[Moksha]

Why do you believe that?

Cuz. Same reason I like Swedish meatballs.

[honorentheos]

Why do you believe that?

Cuz. Same reason I like Swedish meatballs.

Cool. Welcome to being anti Christ.

[Moksha]

Cuz. Same reason I like Swedish meatballs.

Cool. Welcome to being anti-Christ.

I think you may be mistaking lingonberries for the anti-Christ.

[honorentheos]

Cool. Welcome to being anti-Christ.

I think you may be mistaking lingonberries for the anti-Christ.

anti Christ, no hyphen.