The Real Reason I Left

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_Gazelam
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

“Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.” [emphasis mine]


Apparently it is I who needs to eat some crow. I was in fact lazy and hadn't read the thread in full, only scanned through it, not seeing the quote.

Well its obvious that the victim of the rape is not losing chastity. But the vistim does lose virtue. The question then is, how so?

This past weekend the question was raised "What would you do if your kid was molested?", my kneejerk reaction was that you kill the offender and burn their house to the ground.

Whose virtue would be lost then?

There is a quote by an unknown author that I think applies:

"Being mistreated is the most important condition of mortality, for eternity itself depends on how we view those that mistreat us."

One of the painful truths is that in order to receive exaltation, children who have been molested all their lives will have to forgive their abusers.

A life filled with hate, regret, anger, futile rage, etc... is a life unable to support the peaceful presence of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Ghost, a person cannot be sanctified and prepared for eternity. That would be why it would be better to die, before the anger and hatred sets in to slowly dry up and eat away at the Holy Ghost.

of coarse this is not true in every case, but I cannot imagine being raped and not spending the rest of my life wanting vengeance. What a test that would be, to forgive my abuser.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Runtu
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Gazelam wrote:Apparently it is I who needs to eat some crow. I was in fact lazy and hadn't read the thread in full, only scanned through it, not seeing the quote.

Well its obvious that the victim of the rape is not losing chastity. But the vistim does lose virtue. The question then is, how so?

This past weekend the question was raised "What would you do if your kid was molested?", my kneejerk reaction was that you kill the offender and burn their house to the ground.

Whose virtue would be lost then?

There is a quote by an unknown author that I think applies:

"Being mistreated is the most important condition of mortality, for eternity itself depends on how we view those that mistreat us."

One of the painful truths is that in order to receive exaltation, children who have been molested all their lives will have to forgive their abusers.

A life filled with hate, regret, anger, futile rage, etc... is a life unable to support the peaceful presence of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Ghost, a person cannot be sanctified and prepared for eternity. That would be why it would be better to die, before the anger and hatred sets in to slowly dry up and eat away at the Holy Ghost.

of coarse this is not true in every case, but I cannot imagine being raped and not spending the rest of my life wanting vengeance. What a test that would be, to forgive my abuser.


Thanks for clearing that up. I couldn't figure out how you had missed it, and I didn't want to believe you were that disingenuous. You're a good person, Gaz.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

Thanks, Gaz.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Lucretia MacEvil
_Emeritus
Posts: 1558
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:01 am

Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

Gazelam wrote:
“Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.” [emphasis mine]


Apparently it is I who needs to eat some crow. I was in fact lazy and hadn't read the thread in full, only scanned through it, not seeing the quote.

Well its obvious that the victim of the rape is not losing chastity. But the vistim does lose virtue. The question then is, how so?

This past weekend the question was raised "What would you do if your kid was molested?", my kneejerk reaction was that you kill the offender and burn their house to the ground.

Whose virtue would be lost then?

There is a quote by an unknown author that I think applies:

"Being mistreated is the most important condition of mortality, for eternity itself depends on how we view those that mistreat us."

One of the painful truths is that in order to receive exaltation, children who have been molested all their lives will have to forgive their abusers.

A life filled with hate, regret, anger, futile rage, etc... is a life unable to support the peaceful presence of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Ghost, a person cannot be sanctified and prepared for eternity. That would be why it would be better to die, before the anger and hatred sets in to slowly dry up and eat away at the Holy Ghost.

of coarse this is not true in every case, but I cannot imagine being raped and not spending the rest of my life wanting vengeance. What a test that would be, to forgive my abuser.


A new Gaz and a new Paris. The world is going to be a better place!

By the way, being molested as a child and raped as an adult can be forgiven. I have a very personal testimony of that.
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

Have I just been compared to Paris Hilton?

Now I feel molested.

What of my take on how a persons virtue is lost if they are the victim of a horrible occurance? What say you?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Lucretia MacEvil
_Emeritus
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Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:01 am

Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

Gazelam wrote:Have I just been compared to Paris Hilton?

Now I feel molested.

What of my take on how a persons virtue is lost if they are the victim of a horrible occurance? What say you?


You said, "Well its obvious that the victim of the rape is not losing chastity. But the vistim does lose virtue." Did you mean that the other way around, by any chance? That way it might make a little sense to me, but I don't think chastity really means anything more than what society puts on it. What a rape victim stands to lose most importantly is her sense of trust and safety. Rape is a crime of violence, after all. I don't know what you (or Kimball) meant by losing virtue.
_Gazelam
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

Virtue by definition is excellence in moral character and is generally used in definition or reference to a good woman. As Blixa stated it is used synonymously with chastity.

Being of a pious mind I think is a part of that. You would know better than I would, having suffered through that experience, that keeping a proper mental attitude would be hard. We all make mental associations when working through problems in our mind. Loss of virtue poisons his, little by little. Why is pornography (in all its forms, both mild and severe) such a social ill? Because it poisons views, mainly towards women and relationships.

A victim of a violent crime like rape can lose trust in God (whom she may wonder why didn't protect her in some way), in men, including the priesthood holders who are there to serve her, and a poisoning of relationships with the men in her life including husband, boyfriend, and family members.

I imagine its hard to think pure and delightsome thoughts when one feels violated and abused.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_Lucretia MacEvil
_Emeritus
Posts: 1558
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:01 am

Post by _Lucretia MacEvil »

Gazelam wrote:Virtue by definition is excellence in moral character and is generally used in definition or reference to a good woman. As Blixa stated it is used synonymously with chastity.

Being of a pious mind I think is a part of that. You would know better than I would, having suffered through that experience, that keeping a proper mental attitude would be hard. We all make mental associations when working through problems in our mind. Loss of virtue poisons his, little by little. Why is pornography (in all its forms, both mild and severe) such a social ill? Because it poisons views, mainly towards women and relationships.

A victim of a violent crime like rape can lose trust in God (whom she may wonder why didn't protect her in some way), in men, including the priesthood holders who are there to serve her, and a poisoning of relationships with the men in her life including husband, boyfriend, and family members.

I imagine its hard to think pure and delightsome thoughts when one feels violated and abused.


Maybe you should concentrate on pure and delightsome thoughts of your own instead of putting your judgments on others like this.
_Gazelam
_Emeritus
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:06 am

Post by _Gazelam »

Uhm... where did I place judgement?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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