For Coggins

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_Coggins7
_Emeritus
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Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:25 am

Post by _Coggins7 »

One more reason why we know the church is not led by Christ, but by men. And Loran doesn't just attack apostates; he attacks anyone he perceives as being less orthodox than himself. Members are fair game to Loran. He, like so many apologists, just comes unglued at the idea of a member in good standing who doesn't idolize and revere Joseph Smith.



And so, have you spoken to your SP, turned in your Temple recommend, and "come out of the closet" yet, or are you still going to church dressed in that cheesy sheep suit?

You don't even have the decency or intellectual honesty to disclose your true feelings (and that's all they are Harmony) to your Church leaders and be straightforward about them with others. No, you would rather stay in the Church, flashing your recommend, and playing the "faithful" Saint, all the better to carefully and inconspicuously influence others away from the Church and from their salvation and exaltation.

The Book of Mormon describes people who do this kind of thing as spiritual "murderers" of God's children. You are accountable for what you are doing Harmony (and I understand that for you, personal accountability for behavior and life choices is a concept as alien and annoying as for many others of our generation)

And I'm assuming, again, that you're even LDS at all, or, if you are, have ever been really been serious about the Church and its teachings. As I and some others who come here now and then have pointed out, your knowledge of Gospel doctrine, philosophy, and church history is so flagrantly poor that one must be forgiven for thinking that your making much of it up as you go along (or have, as you went along in the past) to suit your own agenda.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Coggins, are you going to address Jason's question, or are you going to conveniently ignore him, and just throw pot shots at Harmony instead? Since Jason started this thread, I think it's a fair question.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Coggins7 wrote:
One more reason why we know the church is not led by Christ, but by men. And Loran doesn't just attack apostates; he attacks anyone he perceives as being less orthodox than himself. Members are fair game to Loran. He, like so many apologists, just comes unglued at the idea of a member in good standing who doesn't idolize and revere Joseph Smith.



And so, have you spoken to your SP, turned in your Temple recommend, and "come out of the closet" yet, or are you still going to church dressed in that cheesy sheep suit?

You don't even have the decency or intellectual honesty to disclose your true feelings (and that's all they are Harmony) to your Church leaders and be straightforward about them with others. No, you would rather stay in the Church, flashing your recommend, and playing the "faithful" Saint, all the better to carefully and inconspicuously influence others away from the Church and from their salvation and exaltation.

The Book of Mormon describes people who do this kind of thing as spiritual "murderers" of God's children. You are accountable for what you are doing Harmony (and I understand that for you, personal accountability for behavior and life choices is a concept as alien and annoying as for many others of our generation)

And I'm assuming, again, that you're even LDS at all, or, if you are, have ever been really been serious about the Church and its teachings. As I and some others who come here now and then have pointed out, your knowledge of Gospel doctrine, philosophy, and church history is so flagrantly poor that one must be forgiven for thinking that your making much of it up as you go along (or have, as you went along in the past) to suit your own agenda.


Coggins,

I see you missed my post to you and continue to be mean and petty. Please answer my OP here.

Oh and since it seems important to you, both my bishop and SP know all of my concerns, we have discussed them at lenght and they have approved a temple recommend for me. So, while I cannot answer for Harmony, there is nothing secret between me and my leaders and they even let me continue to serve in a responsible calling.

So, why do you feel a need to attack me and other active members who really do have valid concerns and want too continue participation in the Church.?
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Jason Bourne wrote:Coggins,

I see you missed my post to you and continue to be mean and petty. Please answer my OP here.

Oh and since it seems important to you, both my bishop and SP know all of my concerns, we have discussed them at length and they have approved a temple recommend for me. So, while I cannot answer for Harmony, there is nothing secret between me and my leaders and they even let me continue to serve in a responsible calling.

So, why do you feel a need to attack me and other active members who really do have valid concerns and want to continue participation in the Church?


I would be interested in the answer to this question as well, since I'm in a similar situation.

Also...when has Harmony ever stated that she is hiding her feelings from her Church leaders? I believe that she has stated several times that her Church leaders are aware of her feelings.
_Coggins7
_Emeritus
Posts: 3679
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:25 am

Post by _Coggins7 »

I would be interested in the answer to this question as well, since I'm in a similar situation.

Also...when has Harmony ever stated that she is hiding her feelings from her Church leaders? I believe that she has stated several times that her Church leaders are aware of her feelings.



Oh come on Liz...PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!
_Coggins7
_Emeritus
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Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:25 am

For Liz

Post by _Coggins7 »

No, I'm not going to reply to Jason's sanctimonious self justification and spleen venting against one of the only persons here who ever takes him to task for his cafeteria Mormonism. We are to live by every word that proceeds forth out of the mouth of God. We do not have the luxury, if we desire exaltation in the presence of God, of picking and choosing our own method and path to salvation. As I recall, Jesus spewed the lukewarm water out of his mouth. Its just having one foot in the church and another in Babylon, a common thing in the church, and I do too, in my own way, but in this intellectual septic tank, it takes on particularly annoying features.

I guess the other thing is, I'm quite literally the only "TBM" here most of the time doing the defending. So it feels, most often, like a gang bang. You'll now ask me why I come here then, and I'll say "I don't have the slightest idea in holy high Hell why I do."

I think, perhaps, you're right, and I'll simply "go on the wagon" and leave this place and its denizens to themselves.
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Re: For Liz

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Coggins7 wrote:No, I'm not going to reply to Jason's sanctimonious self justification and spleen venting against one of the only persons here who ever takes him to task for his cafeteria Mormonism. We are to live by every word that proceeds forth out of the mouth of God. We do not have the luxury, if we desire exaltation in the presence of God, of picking and choosing our own method and path to salvation. As I recall, Jesus spewed the lukewarm water out of his mouth. Its just having one foot in the church and another in Babylon, a common thing in the church, and I do too, in my own way, but in this intellectual septic tank, it takes on particularly annoying features.

I guess the other thing is, I'm quite literally the only "TBM" here most of the time doing the defending. So it feels, most often, like a gang bang. You'll now ask me why I come here then, and I'll say "I don't have the slightest idea in holy high Hell why I do."

I think, perhaps, you're right, and I'll simply "go on the wagon" and leave this place and its denizens to themselves.


Well Coggins, like I said, your mean spirit is a covering for a fearful little pitiful man. I will pray that you can really learn what the divine Christ like attributes are and how that is more important then being a TBM. But I really do not think you are TBM because when I was TBM I was never like you. When I was into apologetics I was never like you. I never treated people like you do. Thank God I did not. You should be embarrassed about how you represent what you believe to be true. Shame on you Coggins. You need to repent.

But because you are a brother I can forgive you and love you. You are in my prayers.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Coggins wrote:I guess the other thing is, I'm quite literally the only "TBM" here most of the time doing the defending. So it feels, most often, like a gang bang.


Loran, if you look at my posts, I think you will see that the only time I have ever "come after you" is when you have been mean-spirited in your approach to others.

I'm sure that you have heard the phrase, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

Why is it necessary for you to stoop to personal attacks?

When I've spoken with you via PM one-on-one, you are a very nice person. I admire a lot of the struggles that you have managed to overcome and have had the courage to share on the board in the past such as your alchoholism. You also mentioned that you are the primary caregiver for your disabled wife.

These are examples of courage and Christ-like behavior that could be utilized in your stance to further your arguments.

Utilizing these types of personal experiences as to why the gospel is meaningful in your life would be a lot more powerful message, I think, than simply hurling insults at people.

Just food for thought.

;)

Liz
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

liz3564 wrote:Utilizing these types of personal experiences as to why the gospel is meaningful in your life would be a lot more powerful message, I think, than simply hurling insults at people.


But hurling insults is ever so much more fun (and intellectually serious, apparently).

I'm sure Loran is a nice person, but it doesn't come across very well here.
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

Do unto others, Loran. One of those gospel basics you're conveniently forgetting. Sounds to me like you're the one who has little knowledge of gospel doctrine, since you disobey it so often. Repent, Loran, repent before it's too late and you find you've lived your life influenced only by the teachings of men.
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