Continued discussion about gender inequality in LDS church

[MG 2.0]

More empathetic. More loving. More insightful. More caring. More knowledgeable about many things.

Regards,
MG

Those are certainly qualities that I would treasure in a religious leader.

And that's why I hope that men are listening to their superiors.

It's hard to do, isn't it? (assuming you're married..but I don't know who is and who isn't around here.)

It's taken me quite a while to take my wife as seriously as I ought to have, in some respects, when I was a younger man. I think I'm starting to 'get it'.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

...Men are different than women. They have different talents and responsibilities. This is, of course, a generalization. But on the whole, men like to do 'men things' and women like to do 'women things'...

This is gender stereotyping and gender bias. I'm pretty sure virtually everyone reading here knows this, and also knows that stating things like this is trolling, and that it is done for attention. If the poster wants to start a separate thread about the bias inherent in the idea that 'men do men things and women do women things' he is welcome to do so, but not here. As the OP I'd like this thread to stay on the topic I started.

[MG 2.0]

...Men are different than women. They have different talents and responsibilities. This is, of course, a generalization. But on the whole, men like to do 'men things' and women like to do 'women things'...

This is gender stereotyping and gender bias. I'm pretty sure virtually everyone reading here knows this, and also knows that stating things like this is trolling, and that it is done for attention. If the poster wants to start a separate thread about the bias inherent in the idea that 'men do men things and women do women things' he is welcome to do so, but not here. As the OP I'd like this thread to stay on the topic I started.

Your views are just another form of stereotyping. Expressing my views that have an impact on the discussion should be welcome. I'm not telling someone else what to think and how to think.

That's what you're doing

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Talk about deja vu. More than a decade ago, Dr. Shades posted this about mentalgymnast:

...It's perfectly okay to disagree with someone, call him or her out on his or her words vs. deeds, present alternate viewpoints to information given, etc. Yet at a certain point, being a contrarian simply for the sake of being a contrarian, even when one is technically ON-topic, counts as "trolling." And trolling is a derailment, if not a "hostile" one by dictionary-definition.

This is what happened to Tobin. He was always on-topic, but his contrarian-ness became not so much to provide the LDS point of view (as he did at the beginning) as it was to distract and annoy the opening poster (in my reasoned opinion)...

mentalgymnast's posts in grindael's most recent threads clearly suffered from "The Tobin Syndrome." ....
viewtopic.php?p=2518463#p2518463

Mentalgymnast has done this now to multiple threads. Even when I broke this thread out of the original topic to avoid the derailing, mg followed it over and continues derailing. Every thread he has posted in recently is being derailed by him.

The actual topic has become irrelevant as he argues his irrelevancies--which are, not incidentally, the same in every thread.

That's the Tobin Syndrome. Is there a solution?

[malkie]

Talk about deja vu. More than a decade ago, Dr. Shades posted this about mentalgymnast:

...It's perfectly okay to disagree with someone, call him or her out on his or her words vs. deeds, present alternate viewpoints to information given, etc. Yet at a certain point, being a contrarian simply for the sake of being a contrarian, even when one is technically ON-topic, counts as "trolling." And trolling is a derailment, if not a "hostile" one by dictionary-definition.

This is what happened to Tobin. He was always on-topic, but his contrarian-ness became not so much to provide the LDS point of view (as he did at the beginning) as it was to distract and annoy the opening poster (in my reasoned opinion)...

mentalgymnast's posts in grindael's most recent threads clearly suffered from "The Tobin Syndrome." ....
viewtopic.php?p=2518463#p2518463

Mentalgymnast has done this now to multiple threads. Even when I broke this thread out of the original topic to avoid the derailing, mg followed it over and continues derailing. Every thread he has posted in recently is being derailed by him.

The actual topic has become irrelevant as he argues his irrelevancies--which are, not incidentally, the same in every thread.

That's the Tobin Syndrome. Is there a solution?

A couple of days ago I noticed a thread in which several posters discussed a topic - sorry, I now have no idea which thread, or what the topic was.

What I remember was that MG made several comments which were totally ignored by the others [ETA] for a page or so [/ETA]. I have no idea if MG's comments were on topic or not, as I sometimes either scroll past, or at best skim, whatever he has to say.

I've noted a few times lately that I will generally not directly respond to MG, not even to call out mischaracterizations of points I've made - I'm content to let readers of the thread judge the situation for themselves.

It's not a perfect solution, but is it perhaps a strategy worth considering?

[MG 2.0]

I've noted a few times lately that I will generally not directly respond to MG, not even to call out mischaracterizations of points I've made - I'm content to let readers of the thread judge the situation for themselves.

The problem is, it seems as though many questions are thrown my way by certain posters. I feel it a courtesy to not ignore those questions. Recently, however, with a particular poster I've made it clear that from here on out I may skip some of their questions because more often than not they almost always skip mine. Another poster very rarely engages with my questions or concerns about what they have to to say.

There seems to be a 'cancel culture' mentality where only certain things are to be said/accepted. If I throw a monkeywrench into things it is looked at as a gross violation of board etiquette.

There are certain posters, as I said, that I would rather not respond to, but I do. Even though I may not have a whole lot of respect for them.

I suppose you and others can do what you want and deal with me how you want. I realize I'm a thorn in the side of a number of people.

But as I've said many times, I'm just a regular guy. What you see is what you get.

No facade like some others seem to put up and hide themselves behind.

That's why I've mentioned a number of times lately that I think it would be extremely interesting to meet some of the people on this board that REALLY rub me the wrong way. We might actually be able to shake hands and develop a friendship.

But not here. There is too much at stake, right? Everybody is watching...

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Talk about deja vu. More than a decade ago, Dr. Shades posted this about mentalgymnast:

Mentalgymnast has done this now to multiple threads. Even when I broke this thread out of the original topic to avoid the derailing, mg followed it over and continues derailing. Every thread he has posted in recently is being derailed by him.

The actual topic has become irrelevant as he argues his irrelevancies--which are, not incidentally, the same in every thread.

That's the Tobin Syndrome. Is there a solution?

A couple of days ago I noticed a thread in which several posters discussed a topic - sorry, I now have no idea which thread, or what the topic was.

What I remember was that MG made several comments which were totally ignored by the others [ETA] for a page or so [/ETA]. I have no idea if MG's comments were on topic or not, as I sometimes either scroll past, or at best skim, whatever he has to say.

I've noted a few times lately that I will generally not directly respond to MG, not even to call out mischaracterizations of points I've made - I'm content to let readers of the thread judge the situation for themselves.

It's not a perfect solution, but is it perhaps a strategy worth considering?

Yes it is. I would like to keep this thread on topic.

[I Have Questions]

The notion that “...Men are different than women. They have different talents and responsibilities. This is, of course, a generalization. But on the whole, men like to do 'men things' and women like to do 'women things'...” is exactly the flawed thinking that has driven the gender inequality in the LDS church. It’s 1950’s unenlightened thinking that stunts the growth of the Church.

It’s also trying to slip in a flawed, misogynistic idea, that women cannot have the priesthood because they don’t have the talents for it. That’s male thinking. Which is the problem in a nutshell.

Disciplinary decisions for members are 100% male. Even when the member is female. That’s simply archaic and misogynistic. There are many female Judges that show just how flawed that thinking is. Jurys are made up with a mix of male and female jurors, why? Etc.

I wonder how long it would take for a revelation would to arrive, were the female members to withhold their service from the Church unless females were granted the Priesthood and access to serve in all callings?