LDS Church urges members to call out racism in their congregations

[huckelberry]

I skipped MG's meandering memories of his youthful limited engagement with the question.

Rivendale, I wonder what your thoughts were in, say, 1966 about your pointed question. I remember thinking Jim crow and lynching were a problem In the states of the former confederacy, not Salt Lake. I remember occasionally being disturbed by racial views expressed, but being a teenager I was not yet rejecting LDS authorities' view of priesthood. It is important to remember that there was a layer of racist assumption pervasive in America. I was becoming aware of reasons to question or reject those assumptions, but that was not a simple "flip a switch" change. I think for most any Mormon at that time church teaching created a fog about the issue. For me, I think I had leave the church to start seeing clearer about race relations in US.

I suspect that MG's fuzzy recollection reflects reality.

An aside, not for Rivendale, Dialogue started 1966. I remember my parents getting it. I looked at their website to confirm that timing. I do not remember it solving Mormon race problems.

I agree racial tensions were ubiquitous throughout the states with some states being worse than others. Look no further than the Lowry Nelson letters to see just how racist the institution was. Joseph Fielding Smith was interviewed in 1963 in Look Magazine and had this quote published:

I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the Negro. ‘Darkies’ are a wonderful people, and they have their place in our church.

But here is the rub. The church continued the ban while the rest of the world began to address many issues. The church including BYU ratcheted up its rhetoric. The federal government was forcing BYU to include minorities in their sports programs and faculty so they cleverly sent letters to prospective black athletes and telling them they wouldn't be happy there. It would take more than a decade after the ending of Jim crow laws in 1964 for the church to end the temple and priesthood ban which I find telling. Other institutions were not excluded from the federal crackdown but they didn't claim they were guided by the one and only true church.

Rivendale, I am not inclined to excuse the church for the racist doctrines I was taught growing up. It was more than a few scriptures and rigid second class standing for people of African descent. It was more than the poisonous excuses about inferior preexistence. There is also the priority of Mormon sense of superiority. Members of the only true church understanding what every body else fails placed in this time and place because we are the cream of the crop, the best in the preexistence. Little surprise some others can be seen as second class.

[I Have Questions]

But here is the rub. The church continued the ban while the rest of the world began to address many issues. The church including BYU ratcheted up its rhetoric. The federal government was forcing BYU to include minorities in their sports programs and faculty so they cleverly sent letters to prospective black athletes and telling them they wouldn't be happy there. It would take more than a decade after the ending of Jim crow laws in 1964 for the church to end the temple and priesthood ban which I find telling. Other institutions were not excluded from the federal crackdown but they didn't claim they were guided by the one and only true church.

Rivendale, I am not inclined to excuse the church for the racist doctrines I was taught growing up. It was more than a few scriptures and rigid second class standing for people of African descent.

Those scriptures remain in the canon to this day, unapologetically unaltered and unexplained.

[huckelberry]

Rivendale, I am not inclined to excuse the church for the racist doctrines I was taught growing up. It was more than a few scriptures and rigid second class standing for people of African descent.

Those scriptures remain in the canon to this day, Unapologetically unaltered and unexplained.

Quite true. It might be added the church has not said the ban was a mistake. Instead they say do not teach the old reasons. I think pride and the need to protect authority will keep the scriptures involved. Even the Book of Abraham.

[Moksha]

Quite true. It might be added that the church has not said the ban was a mistake. Instead they say do not teach the old reasons.

Even so, we know of our superiority because the Mormon male intelligences kept their extensions on the trigger and ceaselessly fired their muskets during the Heaven War, but keep this sacred (lest the Gentiles find out).

The Mormon Authority Intelligences further demonstrated their valiance as they bounced up the higher ground to Castle Satan, taking out nests of Demon gunners along the way in the final battle of the Heaven War.

[MG 2.0]

I think for most any Mormon at that time church teaching created a fog about the issue. For me I think I had to leave the church to start seeing clearer about race relations in US.

I suspect that MG's fuzzy recollection reflects reality.

An aside, not for Rivendale, Dialogue started 1966. I remember my parents getting it. I looked at their website to confirm that timing. I do not remember it solving Mormon race problems.

Aha! I thought I'd read Dialogue way before my mission. Any yes, "fuzzy recollection reflects reality".

You might be able to relate. Sounds like we might be similar in age.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

An aside, not for Rivendale, Dialogue started 1966. I remember my parents getting it.

My date of 1978 came from Wiki:

Dialogue was an American art magazine founded and published in Akron, and later Columbus, Ohio. It covered the arts of Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, western Pennsylvania, Kentucky and northern Illinois.[1] Founded in 1978 by the artist Don Harvey and museum executive and former Artforum editor John Coplans,[1][2] it began having financial troubles in 2002, changed hands, and ceased publication entirely in June 2004.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialogue_(magazine)

You're not serious, right? Not the same Dialogue.

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

IHQ, I can't remember the other example right now but I'm pretty sure this is at least the second time now that you've misplaced your criticism towards me unjustly. It looks like I may have started reading Sunstone just after my mission or while I was at BYU. I know that I was reading it both at my dad's place and at the public library.

Your tendency to make unfounded accusations is noted. Also your failure to answer relevant questions during a discussion. You really are not much of a conversation partner. Just a critic. And an inaccurate one at that, here and there. Sloppy.

Dialogue and Sunstone actually played a part in helping me navigate my own faith journey YEARS ago.

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

IHQ, I can't remember the other example right now but I'm pretty sure this is at least the second time now that you've misplaced your criticism towards me unjustly. It looks like I may have started reading Sunstone just after my mission or while I was at BYU. I know that I was reading it both at my dad's place and at the public library.

Your tendency to make unfounded accusations is noted. Also your failure to answer relevant questions during a discussion. You really are not much of a conversation partner. Just a critic. And an inaccurate one at that, here and there. Sloppy.

Dialogue and Sunstone actually played a part in helping me navigate my own faith journey YEARS ago.

Regards,
MG

Come on MG. You can dialogue without the personal attacks. It’s what missionaries do. You can do better. You can be better.

[MG 2.0]

IHQ, I can't remember the other example right now but I'm pretty sure this is at least the second time now that you've misplaced your criticism towards me unjustly. It looks like I may have started reading Sunstone just after my mission or while I was at BYU. I know that I was reading it both at my dad's place and at the public library.

Your tendency to make unfounded accusations is noted. Also your failure to answer relevant questions during a discussion. You really are not much of a conversation partner. Just a critic. And an inaccurate one at that, here and there. Sloppy.

Dialogue and Sunstone actually played a part in helping me navigate my own faith journey YEARS ago.

Regards,
MG

Come on MG. You can dialogue without the personal attacks. It’s what missionaries do. You can do better. You can be better.

We can all be better, Mr. Wang. Unfortunately you have given no indication that "being better" is your guiding light.

You are a liar and a charlatan. Prove otherwise. P.M. me and let's talk.

Regards,
MG

[Everybody Wang Chung]

Come on MG. You can dialogue without the personal attacks. It’s what missionaries do. You can do better. You can be better.

We can all be better, Mr. Wang. Unfortunately you have given no indication that "being better" is your guiding light.

You are a liar and a charlatan. Prove otherwise. P.M. me and let's talk.

Regards,
MG

MG, why so much hate and anger tonight? Talk to me brother.

How you are acting goes against almost everything the religion you publicly profess to believe in teaches.