Shulem Cracks Book of Mormon Geography

[MG 2.0]

Thus, it could be said that Joseph Smith ALSO believed the final battles occurred at Cumorah.

That is not unreasonable. Zelph comes to mind…

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

The main Book of Mormon chronology covers the span of a thousand years wherein the Nephites and the Lamanites maintained a constant discourse whether at peace or in war. A constant back and forth in a civilization that was fluid and always on the go. Interestingly enough at no time in the stories of this novel did the Nephites or the Lamanites ever hint of a land south of Lehi’s original landing. There is nothing to suggest that there was ever an expedition south of that point. No description of anything was ever said to exist and no claim of any territory south of the southernmost border of the Book of Mormon saga. This in and of itself speaks volumes against Mesoamerican models. It’s unspoken evidence that there is no evidence south of Lehi’s landing. Central America and South America do not exist south of the Book of Mormon peninsula. Only the ocean.

Here is Neville’s map:



Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

Here is Neville’s map:

Neville’s Heartland theory and map directly contradicts and opposes everything I understand about the Book of Mormon and its fluid civilization in which they moved and accomplished what they did and when they did it as described in the book. The Heartland model does nothing to satisfy the definitions given in the Book of Mormon. It’s utter madness. That’s probably the best word to describe it. I was going to say “retarded” but I’ll stick with madness instead. There is no way I could check my brain in and allow that kind of garbage to ruin my intellect.

Delmarva is the one and only true ANSWER. I so testify.

[MG 2.0]

Here is how I believe Smith & Cowdery would have declared their faith if asked:

[X] The Holy Ghost bore testimony to me, Joseph Smith, that the last battles occurred at Cumorah
[X] The Holy Ghost bore testimony to me, Oliver Cowdery, that the last battles occurred at Cumorah

Hence their beliefs were founded on the testimony and witness given them of the Holy Ghost

Oliver wrote eight letters that were published in the Church’s newspaper, theMessenger and Advocate, in Kirtland. In Letter VII, he described the Hill Cumorah and explained that the final battles of the Nephites and Jaredites took place in the mile-wide valley west of Cumorah.

Oliver didn’t claim revelation on the point; he knew it was true because Mormon had deposited the records in the hill and Oliver and Joseph had both seen them there. That’s why Joseph had his scribes copy Letter VII into his journal as part of his history (this was after Letter VII was published in the Messenger and Advocate in 1835).

http://www.moronisamerica.com/nevilles-summary-post/

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

MG,

That map is so bad and so messed up that I am not going to spend my time and energy explaining it away. I could care less if half the Church embraces it and believes it. Mormons will believe anything. That map is nothing but crap!

So, not going to do it. You are welcome to start another thread and ask readers to jump in. Of course, it is Book of Mormon geography so I can't tell you to take it elsewhere only that I'm not getting involved in Neville's STUPID and RETARDED, and insane map.

[MG 2.0]

Here is Neville’s map:

Neville’s Heartland theory and map directly contradicts and opposes everything I understand about the Book of Mormon and its fluid civilization in which they moved and accomplished what they did and when they did it as described in the book. The Heartland model does nothing to satisfy the definitions given in the Book of Mormon. It’s utter madness. That’s probably the best word to describe it. I was going to say “retarded” but I’ll stick with madness instead. There is no way I could check my brain in and allow that kind of garbage to ruin my intellect.

Delmarva is the one and only true ANSWER. I so testify.

You’re a one man band playing your tune. Others will follow I’m sure. Look how many went the FARMS route.

I’ll bow out and let this thread go the direction you want it to. Thanks for letting me pop in with some of my thoughts and current sources I’m looking at. Others might find them of interest. As I said, for many years I’ve been an acolyte of the old FARMS crowd on the whole. But there are, as you know, some real problems with going that route.

I’m recalibrating. I have a firm belief that the Book of Mormon is more than a 19th century fiction. The historicity/geography issues are interesting and worthy study.

Best wishes.

Regards,
MG

[Shulem]

You’re a one man band playing your tune. Others will follow I’m sure. Look how many went the FARMS route.

I’ll bow out and let this thread go the direction you want it to. Thanks for letting me pop in with some of my thoughts and current sources I’m looking at. Others might find them of interest. As I said, for many years I’ve been an acolyte of the old FARMS crowd on the whole. But there are, as you know, some real problems with going that route.

I’m recalibrating. I have a firm belief that the Book of Mormon is more than a 19th century fiction. The historicity/geography issues are interesting and worthy study.

Best wishes.

Regards,
MG

Best wishes to you too, MG.

Thank you for friendly discourse and keeping things civil. You are welcome to pop back in anytime and share whatever you want regarding Book of Mormon geography. But really, this thread is about Delmarva. You might want to start another thread but you'll probably get dogpiled when doing it so I don't know if you want to do that.

Shulem

[Marcus]

Best wishes to you too, MG.

Thank you for friendly discourse and keeping things civil. You are welcome to pop back in anytime and share whatever you want regarding Book of Mormon geography. But really, this thread is about Delmarva. You might want to start another thread but you'll probably get dogpiled when doing it so I don't know if you want to do that.

Shulem

He doesn't seem to understand that Meldrum's group thinks their map applies to a real geography of a real group, whereas Delmarva was Smith's brain-Map to help him shape a fictional story. If he wants to argue that, he does need a different thread, but WOW, what a mess that will become. North American native American history has seriously debunked the racist nonsense he'll be forced to support. Yikes.

Anyway, back to Delmarva!!

[Moksha]

Reminds me of the lyrics to the old Simon and Garfunkel song: “a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest…la la la la la.”

Personally, I think looking at things in a broader context helps us understand things better. Looking at the macro to better understand the micro.

It’s the Monet painting illustration I periodically bring up. Pun intended.

As long as the Book of Mormon can be found on Wikipedia between Battleship Potemkin and The Call of Cthulhu, it is all good.

[MG 2.0]

He doesn't seem to understand that Meldrum's group thinks their map applies to a real geography of a real group…

I completely understand. Not sure if Jonathan Neville subscribes to everything the Meldrumites subscribe to though.

I suppose you could look at the links I posted and decide one way or the other.

Anyway, back to Delmarva!!

Ya, a great place to go for the fictionalists.

Tally ho!

Regards,
MG