Epic Mormonism Live on Rosebud Accusations

[Moksha]

The relevance to me is that her complaints seem to have merit. I can keep that in my pocket regardless of her flaws.

Does the evidence presented in the Mormonism Live podcast seem unpersuasive to you?

[Meadowchik]

The relevance to me is that her complaints seem to have merit. I can keep that in my pocket regardless of her flaws.

Does the evidence presented in the Mormonism Live podcast seem unpersuasive to you?

It doesn't change the gist in my opinion.

[Kishkumen]

I agree that John was wrong in having an affair with Rosebud, but the text messages and Options email paint quite a troubling picture. I got the strong impression that Rosebud approached everything from the position of an equal who was working amicably with John to resolve the situation until John did not join her in forcing Joanna into resigning.

John went the other way. He resigned. The way that plays out in the messages looks very much like Rosebud orchestrating the situation, arranging for John to meet Joanna, calculating that she can persuade John to do what she prefers (force Joanna to resign on the promise that they’ll part sometime afterward), and then promising she’ll destroy him with a bogus harassment claim for not giving her what she wanted out of the split.

The ONLY thing that really cuts the other way is the fact that John bore the title Executive Director and was the minor ex-Mo celebrity. So yeah, he was a bigger cheese than she was. That said, those texts make it look like she is the more formidable and forceful actor in their communications. She is pressing for sex. She arranges the meeting with Joanna. She advises John to push Joanna into resigning.

I think she really tips her hand when she “reassures” John that he is NOT at risk of being accused of sexual harassment. A more subtle guy would have realized the implicit threat and seen that she was giving him a stark choice: do it this way or your ass is mine.

[Meadowchik]

Kish, even if she attempts to speak with power, that does not mean she had it in the relationship, especially when it comes to their professional relationship. He abused his power in the professional relationship.

And it's still relevant to the public because he still abuses his power in his public and professional relationships.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Kish, even if she attempts to speak with power, that does not mean she had it in the relationship, especially when it comes to their professional relationship. He abused his power in the professional relationship.

And it's still relevant to the public because he still abuses his power in his public and professional relationships.

“Speak with power.” Maybe don’t do that? You’re glossing over her choices to cheat on her husband, manipulate John Dehlin, manipulate the Open Stories Foundation board members, and attempt to orchestrate a coup where she ends up running the show with John. She’s a victim in the sense that ultimately she lost her power play because she didn’t have the ‘power’ to get her way. She’s a victim in the barest sense because John Dehlin was the boss in a rinky dink business operation and she was the employee. But let’s not delude ourselves into believing for a second that she isn’t accountable for her choices - she was and is a primary driver of the BS in her life, the BS in John Dehlin’s life, and a Glen Close or Demi Moore-like manipulator who was using John, really using him, to achieve her own aims. She’s just going scorched earth because she’s loopy as crap, and determined to ‘die old and bitter’.

- Doc

[Kishkumen]

Kish, even if she attempts to speak with power, that does not mean she had it in the relationship, especially when it comes to their professional relationship. He abused his power in the professional relationship.

And it's still relevant to the public because he still abuses his power in his public and professional relationships.

Who spoke with power? Joanna Brooks. Here’s how it went: “You two resign or I’m quitting.” What about her power? Is she incapable of speaking with power? Why is the very formidable and highly competent Joanna Brooks being written out of this story? Joanna gave these guys an ultimatum. From there the two had a choice. John chose differently than Rosebud. Should we say that two brilliant and highly capable women are powerless because a penis held the title “Executive Director”?

The story being ignored here is the conflict between Joanna and Rosebud. Joanna won.

[Meadowchik]

“Speak with power.” Maybe don’t do that? You’re glossing over her choices to cheat on her husband, manipulate John Dehlin, manipulate the Open Stories Foundation board members, and attempt to orchestrate a coup where she ends up running the show with John. She’s a victim in the sense that ultimately she lost her power play because she didn’t have the ‘power’ to get her way. She’s a victim in the barest sense because John Dehlin was the boss in a rinky dink business operation and she was the employee. But let’s not delude ourselves into believing for a second that she isn’t accountable for her choices - she was and is a primary driver of the B.S. in her life, the B.S. in John Dehlin’s life, and a Glen Close or Demi Moore-like manipulator who was using John, really using him, to achieve her own aims. She’s just going scorched earth because she’s loopy as Crap, and determined to ‘die old and bitter’.

- Doc

It sounds to me like you're taking a lot of liberties opining about her motives.

Of course she is still accountable for her choices, but he is for his.

[Meadowchik]

Who spoke with power? Joanna Brooks. Here’s how it went: “You two resign or I’m quitting.” What about her power? Is she incapable of speaking with power? Why is the very formidable and highly competent Joanna Brooks being written out of this story? Joanna gave these guys an ultimatum. From there the two had a choice. John chose differently than Rosebud. Should we say that two brilliant and highly capable women are powerless because a penis held the title “Executive Director”?

The story being ignored here is the conflict between Joanna and Rosebud. Joanna won.

That's really cute, reducing it to a contest between Joanna and Rosebud.

[dastardly stem]

After all this back and forth, the Reverend, I would say, has largely solved the puzzle. There may be more information out there to consider but, really, at this point, what is it going to change?

Thanks, Kishkumen.

[Kishkumen]

That's really cute, reducing it to a contest between Joanna and Rosebud.

What’s really cute is your attempt to put words in my mouth. I said it was the story that was being ignored, not the only story. I most certainly did not reduce it to a contest between Joanna and Rosebud. You evidently refuse to acknowledge the power, role, and agency of Joanna.