Israel

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Jersey Girl
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Re: Israel

Post by Jersey Girl »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:36 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:58 pm
Pennies to dollars if we do nothing.

- Doc
But if we do nothing it'll cost the taxpayers $0.
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2023 8:53 pm
I've been trying to find the name (the pronunciation of which I only have phonetically at the moment) of a dry river bed to the west of the Nile--maybe in the area of the Gaza strip.
But the Gaza strip is east of the Nile.
My compass broke. Sue me. :lol:
LIGHT HAS A NAME

We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
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Dr. Shades
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Re: Israel

Post by Dr. Shades »

Chap wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:08 am
Dr. Shades wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:36 am
But if we do nothing it'll cost the taxpayers $0.
A large scale war in the Middle East would threaten vital US interests in trade and military terms, both locally and globally. That would cost a lot more than the kind of early intervention that could make such a general war less likely.
I disagree.
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Re: Israel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Chap wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:08 am
Dr. Shades wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:36 am
But if we do nothing it'll cost the taxpayers $0.
A large scale war in the Middle East would threaten vital US interests in trade and military terms, both locally and globally. That would cost a lot more than the kind of early intervention that could make such a general war less likely.
Shades’ comment was directed toward this:

https://www.discussmormonism.com/viewto ... 3#p2847883

- Doc
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Re: Israel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:36 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2023 12:58 pm
Pennies to dollars if we do nothing.

- Doc
But if we do nothing it'll cost the taxpayers $0.
It would cost zero dollars not having law enforcement, either. But, does it make sense to let cartels and gangs run the show?

- Doc
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Israel

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:30 am
So here is a question for the teeming masses. Will Israel be ultimately charged with war crimes?
I don't think that a nation can be tried for war crimes. I think only people can commit war crimes. So, it will depend on how the war plays out. I'm not sure that the relevant codes were written with the concept of war against a terrorist group embedded in a civilian population in mind. With Al-Queda, I think the U.S. took the position that the rules of war did not apply, which is why the prisoners at Guantanamo were classified as "enemy combatants" and not POWs. Had the rules of war applied, our treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo and elsewhere would likely have been chargeable war crimes.
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Re: Israel

Post by Res Ipsa »

Haaretz published this story about groups of Arabs and Jews in Israel coming together to help and protect their neighbors. Arabs that are not permitted to carry firearms (I don't know whether that extends to all citizens of Israel) rushed in to rescue families being attacked by terrorists. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... dfc6d00000
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Re: Israel

Post by Res Ipsa »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:52 pm
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:30 am
So here is a question for the teeming masses. Will Israel be ultimately charged with war crimes?
I don't think that a nation can be tried for war crimes. I think only people can commit war crimes. So, it will depend on how the war plays out. I'm not sure that the relevant codes were written with the concept of war against a terrorist group embedded in a civilian population in mind. With Al-Queda, I think the U.S. took the position that the rules of war did not apply, which is why the prisoners at Guantanamo were classified as "enemy combatants" and not POWs. Had the rules of war applied, our treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo and elsewhere would likely have been chargeable war crimes.
OK, did a little digging. Basically, International Law works through treaties. The current treaty relevant to war crimes is a UN Treaty called the Rome Statutes. The treaty gives the International Criminal Court jurisdiction over war crimes. One hundred twenty-three countries are parties. Neither the U.S. nor Israel are parties. https://asp.icc-cpi.int/states-parties

The GWB administration went to great lengths to prevent any court other than a U.S. Court from exercising jurisdiction over American citizens. It negotiated a number of bilateral agreements in which nations agree not to turn each other's citizens over to the ICC. As a practical matter, that means only American courts have the authority to charge an American citizen with war crimes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... inal_Court

The Bush Administration invented the status "enemy combatant" as a means of indefinitely detaining suspected terrorists and depriving them of rights under the Geneva Accords. Guantanamo was built outside the United States as a means of depriving suspected terrorists of any rights under the U.S. Constitution. In a couple of cases, the U.S. Supreme Court extended some Constitutional rights to the prisoners at Guantanamo.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/enemy_c ... George%20W.
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Re: Israel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Ok. Looks like this is the plan Iran and Russia cooked up:

Image

I’m just tryin’ to watch football over here, maaaaaan. “F”.

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Re: Israel

Post by Jersey Girl »

with regard to to war crimes on the part of Israel. I was looking at this and that's when/why I posed the question:

https://www.un.org/en/genocidepreventio ... imes.shtml
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Re: Israel

Post by Jersey Girl »

I'm having a hard time assigning blame here and I don't want anyone to tell me what to think because I'll figure it out on my own eventually and decide for myself. We live in hope.

Thinking on the screen...count yourselves super blessed to see the inner workings of what passes for my mind. Just pretend this is written by a 5th grader and you're good.

So on the one hand, we have got Hamas going off on Israel and then Israel is now going off on and trying to obliterate the entire population of the Gaza Strip (giving them a chance to run thus either forcing them on Egypt or piling them up in a corner like ducks in a barrel) which is not comprised of solely Hamas but includes (so far as I can tell at this point) innocent civilians (which may/may not be at the mercy of Hamas) as well as US Citizens and foreign missionaries, and I don't know who all else but people having no affiliation at all with Hamas except for shared location.

But before that it looks like Israel perpetrated acts of discrimination against Gaza including the recent attack on the Al-Alqsa Mosque which Hamas claims was the catalyst for murdering babies. Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map, a goal that I think will never happen. So the Gazans are the baby being thrown out with the Hamas bathwater in this current conflict.

Which begs the question: Where does the blame really fall?

My guess (and I know I think differently about this and you guys probably think I can't think my way out of a paper bag anyway) is that Israel is after the original borders that were given to them by Yaweh.

My reasons:

--Israel doesn't appear need the additional land for any particular use unless I'm missing a shipping port somewhere.

--The entire region is steeped in religiocultural traditions the history of which is fraught with contention.

--I think the decisions that Israel makes aren't exclusively political in the sense that I think they're deeply religious (but I think they have things wrong) in nature because Israel believes that the land was given to them by Yahweh early on in scripture.

--I think that Israel acts on deeply held religious belief and thus the ethnocentrism and the idea that their cause is just and righteous.

--I think that Israel wants to reclaim ALL the boundaries of the land that was promised and given to them by Yahweh and the Gaza Strip is just one part of fulfilling that goal. Some part of me thinks that if my thinking is correct, Israel needs to go back to their own scriptures for a bit of a review.

--I also think that Israel has gone so far and so fast overboard in their religious zeal that they may/may not realize the impact on the rest of the world which is they are essentially inviting the rest of the world to the fray or perhaps that is part of their strategy although I don't know why it would be.

--If they were New Testament believing Christians doing this, I could see reasons why they'd intentionally invite the world to engage in war but even at that rate, I'd say it wouldn't be Biblical in any sense of the word.

--Since the Israelis follow the Old Testament they subscribe an "eye for an eye" and that's what they're acting on to justify to their attempt to reclaim the land.

I'm trying to work both sides of the conflict here...the religious and the political...in my head.

Since I'm two seconds away from finishing up the painting in my kitchen, I shall bore you all with my head another time.

Otherwise please don't read my posts. It's a little embarrassing. :oops:
LIGHT HAS A NAME

We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
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