Biden needs to step aside

[honorentheos]

I share your thoughts about the time having past for a change to be successful. Short term? It's messy and the stakes high with it being highly likely a change would hand the election to Trump. Long term? Democracy has been damaged regardless of the outcome though a 2nd Trump term would be a watershed moment in our history and not in a good way.

[Kishkumen]

I share your thoughts about the time having past for a change to be successful. Short term? It's messy and the stakes high with it being highly likely a change would hand the election to Trump. Long term? Democracy has been damaged regardless of the outcome though a 2nd Trump term would be a watershed moment in our history and not in a good way.

Yeah, I guess it can be done, but the problem is the late timing. Biden could drop out. He might make decisive influence in choosing a replacement a condition. Say he throws his weight behind Harris, and she receives the vote at the convention. I see that as a possibility. Would she win? I don’t know. More young, liberal Democrats would be eager to vote for her, although it is not usually good to bet on a large turnout of younger voters. Would Muslim voters angry about Gaza come back? Maybe. I also see a lot of Democrats angry at the media and party people who are driving the discussion of Biden’s exit. Would they be turned off and stay home, if these folks succeeded in their objective? Maybe the party is betting they are too against Trump to stay home, and I hope that is true.

I know I will vote for the Democrat nominee, whoever it is.

[honorentheos]

I agree with every possibility you pose. In many ways they are why I wonder if it is at all possible to reinsert transparency and a compressed opportunity for open debate within the party for Biden to either shore up support or the alternative candidate to emerge with a coalition of support that folks would feel wasn't forced on them?

Don't know.

[Kishkumen]

I agree with every possibility you pose. In many ways they are why I wonder if it is at all possible to reinsert transparency and a compressed opportunity for open debate within the party for Biden to either shore up support or the alternative candidate to emerge with a coalition of support that folks would feel wasn't forced on them?

Don't know.

I suspect that confidence in the strength of opposition to Trump actually emboldens those who want Biden out. They can argue that it won’t suppress the Democrat vote and may increase it. What it does to independent voters I don’t know. My vote is always going to the most likely person to beat Trump, who is also against populist authoritarianism. Had that person been Liz Cheney, I would have voted for her (impossible, I know, but I say this to make a point).

[Jersey Girl]

Had that person been Liz Cheney, I would have voted for her (impossible, I know, but I say this to make a point).

Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger...in a heartbeat.

[yellowstone123]

Like I said before that how we ended up with these two is really sad. DeSantis was my top pick with Halley as VP. I don’t think DeSantis would have treated Biden like Trump did. I just went to Twitter/X - search and put in Biden or Trump and kept refreshing “latest” and saw quickly how things went down hill. If Kennedy from West Virginia and Sinema from Arizona ran and my two favorites ran it would be tough. I also think my candidates may be called to jump back in based on how the Supreme Court rules on Trump which may be their last case released this year. As to Biden, I think it’s clear Biden is not running things and they need a viable candidate. I can’t even predict the next few month as our country is so divided. In the end it’s not really the candidate but his or her machine he or she brings in. It’s the department Secretary or undersecretary and on that really runs things.

Out of curiosity, yellowstone123, are you a Christian conservative?

Hi, Kikushmen.

I'm don't really know how to answer that. I kind of react to what I feel is right and wrong.

As to being Christian, I don't think anything in the Hebrew Bible points to Jesus Christ; specifically, Isaiah. I would take what Jews think about Isaiah because it's their book. If you listen to them talk about what the chapters say it makes sense. Just because Handel composes a beautiful piece of music regarding it doesn't make Christianity true.

As to conservative, I'm not sure how to answer that also, I take it as a case by case basis. I may paraphrase this wrong but I heard James Carvelle recently talking about identity politics and how it's actually dividing the country. He says he's an - and I would use this term carefully - but he's an American first and he does what he thinks is best for America.

I have a view on abortion that is more in line with the Catholic Church. People at my old job who were pro choice argued with me with the same intensity as pro life. I said that rape, incest and the life of the mother is no argument for having an abortion if you think abortion is killing an innocent child. Complete Hero's in my book are the females who find themselves selves a victim of a horrible crime but go on to have the child, complete Heroes in my book are those females who decline chemotherapy to have a child but then die a few weeks later. but on the other hand am I going to say that a ten year old female who is also a victim of a horrible crime going to be forced to have a child, if she finds out she's pregnant, absolutely not.

It seems people bring up extremes, but on the same time do I think an 8 month pregnant 30 year old lawyer whose Wall Street Banker boyfriend tells her he doesn't want to be a father and is leaving her if she has his child and she goes to the doctor who takes tools and I won't even go any further. Should the States interfere with that? So you have these extreme rules in certain States in the country who thinks this way but then you have so-called liberals who F it up for everyone when they argue there is nothing wrong with what the lawyer did as it's all about women's health.

I always said, even around fifteen years ago when Trump appeared on the stage and I thought of some others he is close with and in his circle and I thought - no way, keep these people away from D.C. I was just listening to the NonZero podcast and Robert Wright is really moving me left and he was talking about how crazy it was to take out a general from Iran, a country we were not a war with which almost caused a war. If anyone had reason to take him out it would have been Israel and they didn't so why did Trump take him out. Wright pointed out that his Neo Con friends, and Mega Donors, I think he mentioned the name Adelson talked about taking the general out a few years prior. As to the argument what if Trump orders a Seal Team member to assassinate a political rival if he is immune. I just say members of the military don't have to carry out an order they feel is immoral or illegal. Trump doesn't need a member of a Seal Team. He can find a lots of star struck privates in the U.S. Army infantry to do the job.

Thanks for the questions, Kishkumen.

[Kishkumen]

I'm don't really know how to answer that. I kind of react to what I feel is right and wrong.

As to being Christian, I don't think anything in the Hebrew Bible points to Jesus Christ; specifically, Isaiah. I would take what Jews think about Isaiah because it's their book. If you listen to them talk about what the chapters say it makes sense. Just because Handel composes a beautiful piece of music regarding it doesn't make Christianity true.

As to conservative, I'm not sure how to answer that also, I take it as a case by case basis. I may paraphrase this wrong but I heard James Carvelle recently talking about identity politics and how it's actually dividing the country. He says he's an - and I would use this term carefully - but he's an American first and he does what he thinks is best for America.

I have a view on abortion that is more in line with the Catholic Church. People at my old job who were pro choice argued with me with the same intensity as pro life. I said that rape, incest and the life of the mother is no argument for having an abortion if you think abortion is killing an innocent child. Complete Hero's in my book are the females who find themselves selves a victim of a horrible crime but go on to have the child, complete Heroes in my book are those females who decline chemotherapy to have a child but then die a few weeks later. but on the other hand am I going to say that a ten year old female who is also a victim of a horrible crime going to be forced to have a child, if she finds out she's pregnant, absolutely not.

It seems people bring up extremes, but on the same time do I think an 8 month pregnant 30 year old lawyer whose Wall Street Banker boyfriend tells her he doesn't want to be a father and is leaving her if she has his child and she goes to the doctor who takes tools and I won't even go any further. Should the States interfere with that? So you have these extreme rules in certain States in the country who thinks this way but then you have so-called liberals who F it up for everyone when they argue there is nothing wrong with what the lawyer did as it's all about women's health.

I always said, even around fifteen years ago when Trump appeared on the stage and I thought of some others he is close with and in his circle and I thought - no way, keep these people away from D.C. I was just listening to the NonZero podcast and Robert Wright is really moving me left and he was talking about how crazy it was to take out a general from Iran, a country we were not a war with which almost caused a war. If anyone had reason to take him out it would have been Israel and they didn't so why did Trump take him out. Wright pointed out that his Neo Con friends, and Mega Donors, I think he mentioned the name Adelson talked about taking the general out a few years prior. As to the argument what if Trump orders a Seal Team member to assassinate a political rival if he is immune. I just say members of the military don't have to carry out an order they feel is immoral or illegal. Trump doesn't need a member of a Seal Team. He can find a lots of star struck privates in the U.S. Army infantry to do the job.

Thanks for the questions, Kishkumen.

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed answer. I was caught off guard by your positive take on DeSantis and was seeking to understand where it might be coming from.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I randomly sampled a half dozen of your links, Doc. None were urging Biden to quit. All, however, were gloating over the Democrat’s dilemma. Maybe I’m missing something?

Can you provide which link you thought didn’t make the point I was trying to convey?

- Doc

[Morley]

Can you elaborate on the last point, please?

There's no way that Biden can win after his performance in the debate. This was not a 'bad night' or a one-off performance. He didn't present himself as a qualified man who wasn't able to make the arguments he should have made, but instead revealed himself as lost, bumbling, and incompetent. His inner circle knows that this is not going to be the last time this happens before the election. What's the campaign's strategy for dealing with this? It's to give him as little exposure to the public as possible. It's only a matter of time before he does the same thing, again. And then again.

I see Biden as a doomed candidate. And he has doomed the party and the process along with himself.

What brought him here? The list is long. 1. Effing humbris. 2. 'Only I can win.' 3. HIs inner circle being afraid to lose their jobs and convinced that they can steer the narrative and handle whatever fallout ensues. 4. Contempt and dismissal of the democratic process, as shown by hiding Biden's problems. 5. Fear to speak truth to power and inability to put the needs of the country before their own. 6. Jill Biden, who either is blind or willing to see her husband made a fool.

In the debate, Trump came across as the angry, loud, crass, and willfully ignorant uncle who, as you were growing up, stole from your college fund and probably molested your sister. Biden was the once kind and engaging grandfather, who could no longer follow the dinner conversation, kept calling your daughter Portia, and continuously dropped his asparagus on his lap, while thinking that no one noticed.

Over the last decade, I've profoundly mourned the Republican Party's decay and demise, as loyalty to personality has blinded them to their once expressed ideals, and allowed them to abandon a cohesive train of thought. I hate to see the Democratic Party following suit.

As we're about to vote for a man who we deem to be not quite competent, we embrace a technocratic philosophy that says the structure that he's put in place will govern for him. When Trump was elected, we thought the same. The structure and people who ran the government would protect us from significant harm. They didn't--and they won't. Individuals in unelected bureaucracies have their own interests and agendas--ones over which we have no control.

Like honor, I'm most concerned with the longterm damage to democracy this is doing. Younger generations have been frozen out. Our message is that only we have the answers; we don't trust that you can win; and here is the distorted and corrupt process we're handing you when you take over. But, um, kids, we're not ready to hand you the reins quite yet.

I have five thriving, adult children. They're all extremely successful, moderate-to-very liberal, thoughtful thinkers. The least educated among them has just one masters degree. As I talked to each of them after the debate, they were, to a person, horrified by the choice presented them, and some are ready to abandon this election. I have to think: How could we not have done better? How the hell did we get to this point?

I think it'll be a disaster if Biden drops out. That said, I think the larger disaster is if he stays and the process is not challenged. If Biden dropped out and released his delegates, the decision could be thrown to the convention, he could release his campaign funds to the winner, and some kind of transparent process would be restored. The chances are extremely slim, but I'd prefer an extremely slim chance to absolutely no chance. And what I see happening now is 'absolutely no chance.' I also think the process matters a great deal.

[Kishkumen]

There's no way that Biden can win after his performance in the debate. This was not a 'bad night' or a one-off performance. He didn't present himself as a qualified man who wasn't able to make the arguments he should have made, but instead revealed himself as lost, bumbling, and incompetent. His inner circle knows that this is not going to be the last time this happens before the election. What's the campaign's strategy for dealing with this? It's to give him as little exposure to the public as possible. It's only a matter of time before he does the same thing, again. And then again.

I see Biden as a doomed candidate. And he has doomed the party and the process along with himself.

What brought him here? The list is long. 1. Effing humbris. 2. 'Only I can win.' 3. HIs inner circle being afraid to lose their jobs and convinced that they can steer the narrative and handle whatever fallout ensues. 4. Contempt and dismissal of the democratic process, as shown by hiding Biden's problems. 5. Fear to speak truth to power and inability to put the needs of the country before their own. 6. Jill Biden, who either is blind or willing to see her husband made a fool.

In the debate, Trump came across as the angry, loud, crass, and willfully ignorant uncle who, as you were growing up, stole from your college fund and probably molested your sister. Biden was the once kind and engaging grandfather, who could no longer follow the dinner conversation, kept calling your daughter Portia, and continuously dropped his asparagus on his lap, while thinking that no one noticed.

Over the last decade, I've profoundly mourned the Republican Party's decay and demise, as loyalty to personality has blinded them to their once expressed ideals, and allowed them to abandon a cohesive train of thought. I hate to see the Democratic Party following suit.

As we're about to vote for a man who we deem to be not quite competent, we embrace a technocratic philosophy that says the structure that he's put in place will govern for him. When Trump was elected, we thought the same. The structure and people who ran the government would protect us from significant harm. They didn't--and they won't. Individuals in unelected bureaucracies have their own interests and agendas--ones over which we have no control.

Like honor, I'm most concerned with the longterm damage to democracy this is doing. Younger generations have been frozen out. Our message is that only we have the answers; we don't trust that you can win; and here is the distorted and corrupt process we're handing you when you take over. But, um, kids, we're not ready to hand you the reins quite yet.

I have five thriving, adult children. They're all extremely successful, moderate-to-very liberal, thoughtful thinkers. The least educated among them has just one masters degree. As I talked to each of them after the debate, they were, to a person, horrified by the choice presented them, and some are ready to abandon this election. I have to think: How could we not have done better? How the hell did we get to this point?

I think it'll be a disaster if Biden drops out. That said, I think the larger disaster is if he stays and the process is not challenged. If Biden dropped out and released his delegates, the decision could be thrown to the convention, he could release his campaign funds to the winner, and some kind of transparent process would be restored. The chances are extremely slim, but I'd prefer an extremely slim chance to absolutely no chance. And what I see happening now is 'absolutely no chance.' I also think the process matters a great deal.

Thanks, Morley. I will engage with this later. Lots of good stuff here.