Did LDS leaders get the vaccine because of preferential treatment?

[honorentheos]

This feels a bit like angry anti-Mormonism for the sake of being all "grrrrr, Mormons" when there is a valuable public relations aspect to the leadership demonstrating their willingness to get the shot well within the bounds of their phase. I don't know. I guess I put the fight against COVID pretty high and don't think there's a better set of candidates one could have used for this situation. It's Utah. The Mormon leadership are the primary influencers. It's not pure and perfect and rainbows and unicorns farts. But it's serving a greater good than most of the dumb crap we kvetch about around here.

[honorentheos]

As long as it was tied to a public announcement and encouragement of those who respect their role as leaders, it's ethical value is high enough to me to feel it outweighs the concerns of privilege...

Wow. I wonder how the Utah residents, a majority of which are non-LDS, feel about giving that privilege to LDS leaders. The word 'ethical' does NOT come to mind.

Getting the shot and promoting it has ethical value at a basic level. Setting the whole church thing aside I would hope most of us agree about that. Is there something dubious or unsavory about the Church leadership being at the front of the line of their phase? Yeah. Using privilege to be at the front of the line is unethical. So there's moral conflict involved. As I said, if being successful was just a matter of logistics then there is no value in having influencers promote the vaccine. Then promoting getting the vaccine wouldn't be a virtuous activity, would it? But there is a need to promote getting it. And a segment of the public less likely to do so overlaps Mormonism. The ethical value of the leadership setting the example and promoting the vaccine outweighs the bad, in my opinion. In fact, I don't see it as even close.

[IHAQ]

This feels a bit like angry anti-Mormonism for the sake of being all "grrrrr, Mormons" when there is a valuable public relations aspect to the leadership demonstrating their willingness to get the shot well within the bounds of their phase. I don't know. I guess I put the fight against COVID pretty high and don't think there's a better set of candidates one could have used for this situation. It's Utah. The Mormon leadership are the primary influencers. It's not pure and perfect and rainbows and unicorns farts. But it's serving a greater good than most of the dumb Crap we kvetch about around here.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you were it the case that Utah had employed a strategy of getting key clergy across the various religious denominations vaccinated early and publicising it as a means of promoting the idea of vaccinations to the masses. That would be fine. But that isn't what's happened.

A small select few white male senior leaders and their wives from one particular religious faith have seemingly managed, as a group, to jump the queue. The Letter in the OP and the discussion on this thread can be easily satisfied by a simple, transparent explanation from either the Health Authority, The Church, or the LDS Owned vaccination provider to explain how and why that happened. I suspect the reason they cannot offer an explanation around the idea of clergy promoting vaccinations is because the clergy of other religions have not been afforded the same priority.

In terms of the idea that, regardless of how they got the vaccine, leaders promoting vaccinations is ultimately a good thing therefore the end justifies the means - is a very slippery slope. If business leaders bought up vaccinations and used them for their own families in advance of others, but promoted the idea of getting vaccinated on their social media and PR platforms, would that "good" still outweigh the "bad"?

[honorentheos]

This feels a bit like angry anti-Mormonism for the sake of being all "grrrrr, Mormons" when there is a valuable public relations aspect to the leadership demonstrating their willingness to get the shot well within the bounds of their phase. I don't know. I guess I put the fight against COVID pretty high and don't think there's a better set of candidates one could have used for this situation. It's Utah. The Mormon leadership are the primary influencers. It's not pure and perfect and rainbows and unicorns farts. But it's serving a greater good than most of the dumb Crap we kvetch about around here.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you were it the case that Utah had employed a strategy of getting key clergy across the various religious denominations vaccinated early and publicising it as a means of promoting the idea of vaccinations to the masses. That would be fine. But that isn't what's happened.

A small select few white male senior leaders and their wives from one particular religious faith have seemingly managed, as a group, to jump the queue. The Letter in the OP and the discussion on this thread can be easily satisfied by a simple, transparent explanation from either the Health Authority, The Church, or the LDS Owned vaccination provider to explain how and why that happened. I suspect the reason they cannot offer an explanation around the idea of clergy promoting vaccinations is because the clergy of other religions have not been afforded the same priority.

The reach of the LDS leadership infu nces half the goddamn state plus significant segments of the population of the surrounding region. It's not a damned religious unity breakfast. It's a public outreach event. Could it be a better look of they had tossed in other 90 year old religious leaders? Sure. But I seriously think the good it does is so far above any harm that is remotely possible here that this seems petty to get outraged over it. Someone has to have an axe to grind to get this upset here. How serious so you think this pandemic is that some 90 year olds with oversized influence getting the shot and promoting is the bigger concern?

[honorentheos]

This feels a bit like angry anti-Mormonism for the sake of being all "grrrrr, Mormons" when there is a valuable public relations aspect to the leadership demonstrating their willingness to get the shot well within the bounds of their phase. I don't know. I guess I put the fight against COVID pretty high and don't think there's a better set of candidates one could have used for this situation. It's Utah. The Mormon leadership are the primary influencers. It's not pure and perfect and rainbows and unicorns farts. But it's serving a greater good than most of the dumb Crap we kvetch about around here.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you were it the case that Utah had employed a strategy of getting key clergy across the various religious denominations vaccinated early and publicising it as a means of promoting the idea of vaccinations to the masses. That would be fine. But that isn't what's happened.

A small select few white male senior leaders and their wives from one particular religious faith have seemingly managed, as a group, to jump the queue. The Letter in the OP and the discussion on this thread can be easily satisfied by a simple, transparent explanation from either the Health Authority, The Church, or the LDS Owned vaccination provider to explain how and why that happened. I suspect the reason they cannot offer an explanation around the idea of clergy promoting vaccinations is because the clergy of other religions have not been afforded the same priority.

In terms of the idea that, regardless of how they got the vaccine, leaders promoting vaccinations is ultimately a good thing therefore the end justifies the means - is a very slippery slope. If business leaders bought up vaccinations and used them for their own families in advance of others, but promoted the idea of getting vaccinated on their social media and PR platforms, would that "good" still outweigh the "bad"?

They were in the appropriate phase for getting the vaccine. I think you're being petty.

[cinepro]

Wow. I wonder how the Utah residents, a majority of which are non-LDS, feel about giving that privilege to LDS leaders. The word 'ethical' does NOT come to mind.

Do you have a source for a majority of Utah residents being non-Mormon? Because it looks like most accepted numbers show they still are...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Utah

[cinepro]

In terms of the idea that, regardless of how they got the vaccine, leaders promoting vaccinations is ultimately a good thing therefore the end justifies the means - is a very slippery slope. If business leaders bought up vaccinations and used them for their own families in advance of others, but promoted the idea of getting vaccinated on their social media and PR platforms, would that "good" still outweigh the "bad"?

I can't answer for honorentheos, but from a science and public health perspective, if the people in their families that were vaccinated were in high-risk groups (for infection or spreading to others) and this didn't delay the vaccine distribution, then it would be great to have people buying the vaccines and administering them.

[Lem]

Setting the whole church thing aside I would hope most of us agree about that. Is there something dubious or unsavory about the Church leadership being at the front of the line of their phase? Yeah. Using privilege to be at the front of the line is unethical. So there's moral conflict involved.

Agreed.

I think you're being petty.

So noting that using privilege is unethical is petty? I really, really didn't expect that from you, honor.

[Lem]

Wow. I wonder how the Utah residents, a majority of which are non-LDS, feel about giving that privilege to LDS leaders. The word 'ethical' does NOT come to mind.

Do you have a source for a majority of Utah residents being non-Mormon? Because it looks like most accepted numbers show they still are...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Utah

Your source:

According to a report produced by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life the self-identified religious affiliations of Utahns over the age of 18 as of 2014 are... Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 55%

that was 2014, and your source says it continues to decline.

Still not a reason to privilege one religion's leaders over others.

[cinepro]

A small select few white male senior leaders and their wives from one particular religious faith have seemingly managed, as a group, to jump the queue. The Letter in the OP and the discussion on this thread can be easily satisfied by a simple, transparent explanation from either the Health Authority, The Church, or the LDS Owned vaccination provider to explain how and why that happened. I suspect the reason they cannot offer an explanation around the idea of clergy promoting vaccinations is because the clergy of other religions have not been afforded the same priority.

How is them being white or male relevant, and then you mention their wives, who aren't male. So are you less mad about their wives getting the vaccines? (And men are more likely to die from Covid-19, so if a choice had to be made, the science would indicate vaccinating the men before the women). And you also omit the most relevant factor: their ages, which put them firmly in the tiers of people who were supposed to be getting vaccines.

You also say "jump the queue" as if there is a queue of some sort. There isn't. And keep in mind that the most recent data shows that Utah has 127,000 vaccines sitting in freezers right now (and they've had over 100,000 sitting in freezers for a couple of weeks.) So I'm not sure the best use of time is worrying about 15 people (over the age of 70) who did get vaccines, but maybe instead to worry about the 127,000 people who could have vaccines right now but don't. And the problem is way worse in California where I am, so it just seems absurd to worry about who did or didn't get a vaccine. The focus needs to be on more vaccines getting into more people, not the race or gender or religion of who did get a vaccine.*

I suspect the reason no one is giving further "explanation" is because they did nothing wrong from any procedural or scientific perspective.

*To be clear, to the degree that infections are more prevalent in certain areas and cultural groups, I support targeting those areas for vaccine administration as long as it doesn't induce a delay.