The Holy Ghost

[_Quantumwave]

Marg wrote:

“by the way...I'm not very interesting in spending much time in this discussion. I have looked at the site you offered and was not impressed by V. Zammit argument presentation. As I read I could see flaw after flaw in his logic..which is fine for persuasion especially in courts when one's only interest is winning over a jury ..but it is not what is needed to get to a truth or reality..which is what you are after or should be. It is not worth the time to point it out the deficiencie in his logic here. I will leave it to you ..to present what you believe is the best evidence to support an "afterlife reality."”

“by the way...I'm not very interesting in spending much time in this discussion.”
Most people are not interested in spending time evaluating evidence that challenges preconceived notions. I’m sure I cannot convince you by what I have found in a short description. If you are genuinely interested, you need to make the determination for yourself.

The fact is, if only one of the millions upon millions of people experiencing what they swear to as afterlife evidence is valid, then the afterlife exists.

You say you could see “flaw after flaw in his (Zammit’s) logic”. Perhaps you could provide a couple of flaws? Remember though, just because you don’t agree does not constitute a flaw in logic.

Here is some information you might find interesting, but you will remain unconvinced, I am sure. Like I have stated previously, you need to base your decision on a large sampling of evidence, and it takes much more effort than the brief time you have spent today. The following information constitutes an area of special interest to me, but is overall a very small part of the picture.

Afterlife intelligences tell us that our spiritual development is indicated by the frequency of vibration of our spiritual entities. Quantum physicists have shown that not only light, but all matter has wave properties with inherent vibration. It has been shown experimentally that components of atoms have wave properties and are in a constant state of vibration. This atomic vibration phenomenon is relatively new to physicists, and differs from the molecular/mechanical vibration created by heat. When all heat is removed from an object, the temperature is at absolute zero and all molecular vibration stops. However, vibration of the quantum stuff atoms are made of, continues.

There is an interesting parallel between frequency of vibration and color as described by afterlife intelligences and the molecular vibration and color of physical material. Most of us have seen how a metal object will change color when heated. As the temperature elevates, the molecules of the metal vibrate at increasing frequencies and the color changes from dark red to bright red and then approaches white, giving us the term “white hot”. Afterlife intelligences consistently send the message that the higher developed beings have brighter/whiter appearances which are a function of their frequency of vibration, and that their entire existence is at a much higher vibration.

Quantum physicists have shown that everything in the universe is connected. This was demonstrated in the laboratory by what has been named the “Aspect Experiments”, conducted by Alain Aspect at the Institute of Optics at the University of Paris at Orsay. French physicist Bernard d’ Espagnat stated in Physical Review Letters, 1981, “Experiments have recently been carried out that would have forced Einstein to change his conception of nature on a point he always considered essential…we may safely say that non-separability is now one of the most certain general concepts of physics.” Afterlife intelligences have consistently made statements that we are all connected and we are connected to everything. This information from the afterlife was provided many years before universal connectivity was first postulated by quantum physicists.

Prior to the 20th century, scientists postulated the presence of such a medium and called it “ether”. James Clerk Maxwell stated, “The vast interplanetary and interstellar regions will no longer be regarded as waste places in the universe… We shall find them to be already full of this wonderful medium; so full that no human power can remove it from the smallest portion of space, or produce the slightest flaw in its infinite continuity.” Sir Oliver Joseph Lodge stated, “In the spiritual worlds the Realities of Existence are other and far higher; but still the Ether is made use of in ways which at present we can only surmise.”

The ether theory was rejected by mainstream physicists after 1887 when the Michelson-Morley experiments failed to detect anything resembling ether in space. When Einstein published the special theory of relativity in 1905 which contains the premise that the speed of light remains constant for all observers independent of their frame of reference/relative velocities, this invalidated the results of the Michelson-Morley experiments which were based on the assumption that light would behave and propagate like ordinary waves in material mediums.

The overwhelming majority of astrophysicists have now signed up to the existence of an undefined medium, permeating all space, they call “dark matter”. The existence of dark matter a.k.a. ether or any such thing permeating all of space has not been physically detected, and therefore does not submit to the scientific method. Nonetheless, mainstream scientists are signing on, due to the undeniable evidence. The evidence for the existence of dark matter was arrived at sometime in the last decade of the 20th century resulting from the difference of mass of the universe from theoretical calculations and numbers resulting from direct measurement. The direct measurement number was one-third of the theoretical, so the theoreticians told the direct measurement physicists to keep measuring until they got it right. They never did, and the community of scientists placed more confidence in the theory, which leads to the conclusion that at least two-thirds of the total mass of the universe consists of this invisible dark matter.

A publication under the title of The Spirit’s Book appeared in 1857, in which the question was asked “Does an absolute void exist in any part of space?” The answer from spirit guides is as follows: "No there is no void. What appears like a void to you [on earth] is occupied by matter in a state in which it escapes the action of your senses and of your instruments." This statement from the spirit guides is validated as accurate about a century and a half later, with the discovery of “dark matter” by modern astrophysicists. A few years ago, quantum physicist John A. Wheeler stated, "No point is more central than this, that empty space is not empty. It is the seat of the most violent physics."

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia; “In cosmology, dark matter consists of matter particles that cannot be detected by their emitted radiation but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter such as stars and galaxies. Estimates of the amount of matter in the galaxies, based on gravitational effects, consistently suggest that there is far more matter than is directly observable. In addition, the existence of dark matter resolves a number of inconsistencies in the Big Bang theory, and is crucial for structure formation. Much of the mass of the universe is believed to exist in the "dark sector". Determining the nature of this missing mass is one of the most important problems in modern cosmology. About 25% of the universe is thought to be composed of dark matter, and 70% is thought to consist of dark energy, an even stranger component distributed diffusely in space that likely cannot be thought of as ordinary particles.” The calculations of the amount of dark matter varies between 25% and 95% of the mass of the universe, depending on the theoretical methodology, but the existence of dark matter is widely accepted. Other concepts intimately related to dark matter and dark energy are “Quantum Vacuum” and “Zero-point Energy”. The conclusion is that there is no “void” in space and everything that exists is intimately connected, just as intelligences in the next dimension have been repeatedly telling us for centuries.

Given the ubiquitous nature of this ethereal substance called “dark matter”, and since this substance seems to own the same general attributes of non-detectability as the ethereal substance human spirits are comprised of, it logically follows that our spirits are comprised of this “dark matter” in the same relationship our physical bodies are comprised of earthly matter, which is actually star material of our physical universe. Simply put, our spiritual bodies are related to ethereal dark matter just as our physical bodies are related to physical matter.

The afterlife intelligences tell us repeatedly that “time in the afterlife has no meaning”. They have stated that beings in the afterlife dwell in the “now” which includes the past and the future. This is mind boggling, but is a consistent message. Quantum physicists have determined that the quantum stuff comprising atomic structure is timeless, i.e., is eternally unchanged. This is a similarity related to afterlife information that states that nothing ages in the realms of the afterlife.

[_Roger Morrison]

Ajax, you say:
""""Are you maintaining a possibility of an afterlife without a resurrection? I don't see much purpose in life if the truth is that sooner or later we are just going to disappear into oblivion. I think that's why people struggle to hold onto religion. Nothing else really seems to offer a satisfactory answer to these questinos, at least not that I've heard. Any ideas? (bold added)"""""

Interesting that You "don't see much purpose in life" as it is. What a pity. Are You in anyway disabled or incapacitated? I hope You're wrong about why people "hold onto religion".

What "questions" that have not had "satisfactory answer(s)" do You have?

Looks like i messed up on the "Quote" thing...[/quote]
Don't like the minifont either. Ever learning...

[_gramps]

Hi Quantum Wave.

I followed the link you provided, to the lawyer's site about the paranormal.

I also listened to some of the recordings. I especially liked the Louis Armstrong recording of It's A Wonderful Life.

You are pulling our leg, aren't you?

Are you telling me that you believe that that recording is actually Louis Armstrong, re-materializing and singing that famous tune?

Come on, tell me, you are joking, right?

I listened to a lot of those recordings and was flabbergasted that people could really believe such a thing.

And another thing: that lawyer's book is bunk, to be honest. I was very unimpressed. You can't believe in the Holy Ghost, but you can believe in that spiritualist seance stuff? Are you for real?

I would suggest others reading here go and visit that site and see what you think. It's specifically great after a couple of beers.

sorry, quantum wave, but I ain't buying what you are selling. I feel like I need a shower to clean myself off.

Hi Gramps,

I'm not surprised at your reaction. Mine was the same when I initially saw the information. I would suggest you make more of an examination before dismissing it all off-hand. There is a lot more to it than you have been able to see in your short examination.

With the millions, perhaps billions of people experiencing such events as past life memories, near death experiences, death bed visions, out of body experiences, just to name a few, it takes a very closed mind to dismiss it all with such a short examination. However, I certainly understand your postion. I have been there.

Well, I am not going to be one of "the millions, perhaps billions" and will keep my closed mind, all the same thank you. Your response to marg above makes we want to take another shower. What are you on? This is the last time I communicate with you on this board, or any other for that matter. Sorry. Try some other soul for your missionary efforts.

[_Gazelam]

Did you read the link I provided, and if so, what is your opinion?

The fact of the matter is, is that we are children of God. The title God has given us to refer to him by is Father, and our Father wishs for all of his children to progress and become as he himself is. The same sociality that we have here will be there, only it will be coupled with Glory (light, intelligence). ( D&C 130:2) He has given us comandments, Laws, and teachings in order to help us in gaining his mind and will. The Holy Ghost is given to the faithful in order to lead and direct his children and to help them on their way. The Holy Ghost is God, and as we begin to understand the life we must lead to enjoy his presence, we understand what is required of us in order for us to enjoy the presence of the Father in the eternities. (D&C 88:11-41)

It would be a strange thing to think that God, who has the power of creation, does not have the ability to speak to his children. the true issue is not does God "Who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past" (Hebrews 1:1-2) still speak, but rather, what did the ancients do whereby they merited the right to hear his voice, that we might do the same?

Joseph Smith taught "....the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, cannot be received through the medium of any other principle than the principle of righteousness". The principle is taught in the Old Testament ritual of washing and annointing. The washing, which represented a cleansing of the soul, always preceded the anointing, which represented the outpouring of the Spirit.

"It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God," Alma declared. "Nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only unto the children of Men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him. And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full." (Alma 12:9-10.)

Alma's doctrine is that puny preparation brings puny revelation. Joseph Smith said: "I could explain a hundred fold more than I ever have of the glories of the kingdoms manifested to me in the vision, were I permited, and were the people prepared to receive them. The Lord deals with this people as a tender parent with a child, communicating light and intelligence and the knowledge of his ways as they can bear it" The scriptural promise is that those who "hunger and thirst after righteousness" shall be "filled with the Holy Ghost" (3 Nephi 12:6.) No promise is given to those satisfied to nibble at the gospel or who fill themselves with spiritual junk food.

Scripture is our textbook on how the spirit of prophecy functions. Through a study of the standard works we can become familiar with the Spirit of truth and invite and entice that spirit into our lives. Bruce R. McConkie stated "Those who study, ponder, and pray about the scriptures, seeking to understand their deep and hidden meanings, receive from time to time great outpourings of light and knowledge from the Holy Spirit."

There is nothing more important to pray to God for than the Holy Ghost. After offering thanks for all that God does to uphold and preserve you, it is your right as his child to ask for guidance as to what his will is concerning you and the actions he would have you take. The Holy Ghost is the comforter and revelator from the presence of the Father. The Holy Ghost is also the purifier, and if we have prepared our bodies as temples fit for the presence of God, the Spirit of the Lord may dwell within us and sanctify us to dwell in the presence of the Father. Ask for this gift, and do what is necessary to live worthy of such a gift. Study the scriptures, for they bear record of Gods dealings with us in the past, and follow the example of the Son of God.

2 Nephi 31:
16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.
17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

[_ajax18]

[quote="Roger Morrison"]Ajax, you say:
""""Are you maintaining a possibility of an afterlife without a resurrection? I don't see much purpose in life if the truth is that sooner or later we are just going to disappear into oblivion. I think that's why people struggle to hold onto religion. Nothing else really seems to offer a satisfactory answer to these questinos, at least not that I've heard. Any ideas? (bold added)"""""

Interesting that You "don't see much purpose in life" as it is. What a pity. Are You in anyway disabled or incapacitated? I hope You're wrong about why people "hold onto religion".

What "questions" that have not had "satisfactory answer(s)" do You have?

I guess it all depends on your life experience. I think the bad outweighs the good for my life. You could accuse of me of just having a bad attitude, but I think you'd be hard pressed to say that living is better than dying for every persons situation who ever lived.

[_Gazelam]

Early in this dispensation, a revelation was given in which the prophet was addressed as follows: "be patient in afflictions for thou shalt have many; but endure them, for lo, I am with thee, even unto the end of thy days." (D&C 24:8)

There will come a time when you wil reflect back on your trials, and see the growth they allowed you to have. Time will prove you the victor if you maintain your sence of humor and integrity to true principles. There is something to be learned in your hardships.

Here is an excellent talk on the principle of trials (realaudio):

http://www.byubroadcasting.org/edweek/2003/real/rmillet.ram

[_Quantumwave]

Gaz asked the question:

“Did you read the link I provided, and if so, what is your opinion?”

I must admit that I only read pieces of the link since I needed to refresh my memory from reading the article a few years ago. Actually, many years ago.

Hugh Nibley, may he rest in peace, lived a block from the family home where I grew up, and was regarded by the locals as a sort of celebrity. As a result of that, I have read most of what he has authored. Well, maybe not most, but a lot, anyway.

The problem I have with his logic, is his propensity for the hasty generalization. For example, he uses the example that some scientists promote probabilistic models for creation and then brings up someone’s example of an infinite number of chimpanzees “strumming on typewriters” could eventually produce Shakespeare, and uses that example to denigrate ALL science. His logic states that since one cannot disprove everything in the Book of Mormon, then it could be true and this puts the Book of Mormon on at least equal footing with science, since some scientists will disagree on many scientific principles.

If you analyze his writings, you will find he does not draw conclusions. He uses lengthy circumspect discussions involving such generalized statements as “the ancients tell us” and let the readers make their own conclusions.

Having said that, I must also say that he was a very intelligent guy and an entertaining writer with his own characteristic sense of humor. The local folklore included stories of how he had the highest IQ in the nation at the time of WWII and one of his jobs as an army intelligence officer was to commit code encryptions to memory for safe keeping.

[_Quantumwave]

Hi Quantum Wave.

I followed the link you provided, to the lawyer's site about the paranormal.

I also listened to some of the recordings. I especially liked the Louis Armstrong recording of It's A Wonderful Life.

You are pulling our leg, aren't you?

Are you telling me that you believe that that recording is actually Louis Armstrong, re-materializing and singing that famous tune?

Come on, tell me, you are joking, right?

I listened to a lot of those recordings and was flabbergasted that people could really believe such a thing.

And another thing: that lawyer's book is bunk, to be honest. I was very unimpressed. You can't believe in the Holy Ghost, but you can believe in that spiritualist seance stuff? Are you for real?

I would suggest others reading here go and visit that site and see what you think. It's specifically great after a couple of beers.

sorry, quantum wave, but I ain't buying what you are selling. I feel like I need a shower to clean myself off.

Hi Gramps,

I'm not surprised at your reaction. Mine was the same when I initially saw the information. I would suggest you make more of an examination before dismissing it all off-hand. There is a lot more to it than you have been able to see in your short examination.

With the millions, perhaps billions of people experiencing such events as past life memories, near death experiences, death bed visions, out of body experiences, just to name a few, it takes a very closed mind to dismiss it all with such a short examination. However, I certainly understand your postion. I have been there.

Well, I am not going to be one of "the millions, perhaps billions" and will keep my closed mind, all the same thank you. Your response to marg above makes we want to take another shower. What are you on? This is the last time I communicate with you on this board, or any other for that matter. Sorry. Try some other soul for your missionary efforts.

Gramps:

I'm not selling anything. Marg asked questiions I responded to. What you believe makes no difference at all to me. As I stated to Marg, these are my own PERSONAL opinions.

However, I'm sorry I touched a nerve of yours that resulted in such venomous hatred.

Peace be with you

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Oh this is so so simple and easy and requires no one right CHURCH.

I think the Holy Ghost is really cool you guys.

I cannot tell you how much he has helped me in my own very personal way.

I Love and adore the HOLY GHOST, I am not AFRAID of him, because usually I am afraid of GHOSTS but not HIM, because I know he will always keep me safe and protected.

I know that the HOLY GHOST has guided me and guides my children as well, even my GAY son is guided by the HOLY GHOST because the HOLY GHOST is for everyone right????

I will always let a GHOST guide me ESPECIALLY if this GHOST is MALE.

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Ajax18, thanks for your response and candor. You say

guess it all depends on your life experience. I think the bad outweighs the good for my life. You could accuse of me of just having a bad attitude, but I think you'd be hard pressed to say that living is better than dying for every persons situation who ever lived.

You are totally correct about "life experience" conditioning one's attitude, behaviour and response to their life experiences. You are right again, dying does seem preferable for many who have a life quality that is at zero or seems so.

I have no way of knowing your circumstances, and if i did i have absolutely no right, or ability to pass judgement on You. I dare say if i were to trade places, and strokes with You, i would be You and You would be Me.

All i can, and will, do is encourage You to see yourself without the scars of your difficult times. You were born pure, innocent and full of potential; as is everyone. You came into the world as a blessing to humanity; as does everyone.

From that point you were a product of both your nature and your nature; as we all are. That fact i refer to in my book as "birth luck"; either good-luck, or less than good--maybe even bad-luck is our starting point.

For the first 10 years we have few choices that are strictly our own. In the first 4 years absolutely no significant choices are left to the individual. In such an environment free-agency is unknown. Consequently we are initiated into life by the blessings or cursings of our appointed/destined care-givers.

Happy children, sad children, confident children or frightened children we engage our time and place as we are conditioned to do. Adolescence and adulthood extend from that preperation and will determine our ability to function within dysfunction. There is no perfection. But levels of 'exellence' are practically obtainable with dedicated effort.

Look in a mirror, feel your features. They are absolutely yours. Natured as "God" intended. Probe your mind, your attitudes, your habits, they are "You" as Nurtured in/by your environment.

"Nature" you can do little about. It's in your genes your DNA, there to stay. "Nurture" on the other hand is home-made, and to a great degree can be re-made. Or modified, as in behaviour-modification of those traits/attitudes/memories that are discomforting.

I encourage You to SEE Yourself as "God" made You, and life will take on different meaning and purpose. UNDERSTAND Youself as home-made to see your 'reasons-fo-being' as you are. Then go about re-making yourself as You want to be. Life will then be a pleasant place, and death will have little, if any appeal.

That is the promise of Jesus. "Take my understanding (yoke) upon yourself and enjoy the fullness of LIFE/JOY," not death. YOU CAN DO IT! I "pray" for your success. Warm regards, Roger