God's body. Could Joseph Smith have been wrong.

[_Tarski]

Since, prophets seem to offer opinion that sounds like preaching if not prophesying, does any LDS memebr here think that Joseph Smith could have been wrong about God having an anthropomorphic body?

How often and clearly does it appear in the cannon?

[_ajax18]

I've fought out what is doctrine with other Mormons all the time and basically to me doctrine comes down to what the Church takes a stand on. So since it doesn't ask in the Temple recommend interview questions whether or not you believe God the and Jesus have anthromorphic bodies, you could probably believe they don't and still be Mormon as long as you didn't preach it. I wonder if they would send an inquisition after you for writing that they don't outside of Church. I guess if you got enough of an audience they may ask you to stop, but more than likely as long as you don't make waves, anything goes.

Sometimes I think I would prefer a smaller Church where the fewer members that belonged shared more beliefs in common. I think most people who remain active in the LDS church don't ever deal with the issues that internet Mormons deal with. Church is truly more of a social club for these people. Whether or not you like the people in the ward is a major issue. Doctrines are really of no consequence especially if you don't talk about them. Offending people or building relationships are far more valued than the search for the truth. Even before the internet I was a philosophical Mormon and therefore doomed to find out that the reasoning wasn't as perfect as I was told it was each Sunday.

[_Jason Bourne]

Since, prophets seem to offer opinion that sounds like preaching if not prophesying, does any LDS memebr here think that Joseph Smith could have been wrong about God having an anthropomorphic body?

How often and clearly does it appear in the cannon?

D&C 130 is the only place in canon I know of the the declaration that God has a body exists. On the other hand the fifth lecture on faith that used to be in the D&C and can be argued was canon, says the Father is a personage of spirit.

Jason

[_Gazelam]

Aside from the numerous scriptures declareing the resurrection, and all that that entails, there are a number of scriptures declareing the physical body of God:

Gen. 1: 27 (Moses 2: 27) God created man in his own image.
Gen. 5: 1 God created man, in the likeness of God made he him.
Gen. 9: 6 in the image of God made he man.
Gen. 18: 33 Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing.
Gen. 32: 30 I have seen God face to face.
Ex. 24: 10 they saw the God of Israel, there was under his feet.
Ex. 31: 18 (Deut. 9: 10) written with the finger of God.
Ex. 33: 11 Lord spake unto Moses face to face.
Ex. 33: 23 thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not.
Num. 12: 8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth.
Matt. 3: 17 a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son.
Matt. 4: 4 every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matt. 17: 5 a voice out of the cloud.
Luke 24: 39 for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
John 14: 9 he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.
Acts 7: 56 the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Rom. 8: 29 predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.
2 Cor. 4: 4 Christ, who is the image of God.
Philip. 2: 6 who, being in the form of God.
Philip. 3: 21 our vile body . . . fashioned like unto his glorious body.
Col. 1: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God.
Heb. 1: 3 the express image of his person.
James 3: 9 men which are made after the similitude of God.
1 Jn. 3: 2 when he shall appear, we shall be like him.
Rev. 22: 4 they shall see his face.
Mosiah 7: 27 (Ether 3: 15) image after which man was created.
D&C 20: 18 he created man, male and female, after his own image.
D&C 110: 3 his eyes were as a flame of fire.
D&C 130: 1 Savior shall appear . . . see that he is a man like ourselves.
D&C 130: 22 Father has a body of flesh and bones.
Moses 1: 16 thou art after the similitude of mine Only Begotten.
Moses 6: 9 In the image of his own body . . . created he them.
Abr. 3: 11 Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face.
Abr. 4: 27 Gods went down to organize man in their own image.

See also Gen. 33: 10; Deut. 4: 28; Acts 17: 29; Col. 3: 10.


Also Christ, being God, and having done nothing save he saw the Father do it before him, sat as a glorified resurrected being and ate a meal with the 12 in Jerusalem:

36 ¶ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

There is also section 88 of the doctrine and covenants which states:

14 Now, verily I say unto you, that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead.
15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.
16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.
17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.
18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;
19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;
20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.

We are to dwell in the presence of God the Father, and in order to do that and be fulfilled we must be as he himself is. God the Father has a body of Flesh and Bone, and we shall as well.

Gaz

[_Tarski]

Aside from the numerous scriptures declareing the resurrection, and all that that entails, there are a number of scriptures declareing the physical body of God:

Gen. 1: 27 (Moses 2: 27) God created man in his own image.
Gen. 5: 1 God created man, in the likeness of God made he him.
Gen. 9: 6 in the image of God made he man.
Gen. 18: 33 Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing.
Gen. 32: 30 I have seen God face to face.
Ex. 24: 10 they saw the God of Israel, there was under his feet.
Ex. 31: 18 (Deut. 9: 10) written with the finger of God.
Ex. 33: 11 Lord spake unto Moses face to face.
Ex. 33: 23 thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not.
Num. 12: 8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth.
Matt. 3: 17 a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son.
Matt. 4: 4 every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matt. 17: 5 a voice out of the cloud.
Luke 24: 39 for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
John 14: 9 he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.
Acts 7: 56 the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Rom. 8: 29 predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.
2 Cor. 4: 4 Christ, who is the image of God.
Philip. 2: 6 who, being in the form of God.
Philip. 3: 21 our vile body . . . fashioned like unto his glorious body.
Col. 1: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God.
Heb. 1: 3 the express image of his person.
James 3: 9 men which are made after the similitude of God.
1 Jn. 3: 2 when he shall appear, we shall be like him.
Rev. 22: 4 they shall see his face.
Mosiah 7: 27 (Ether 3: 15) image after which man was created.
D&C 20: 18 he created man, male and female, after his own image.
D&C 110: 3 his eyes were as a flame of fire.
D&C 130: 1 Savior shall appear . . . see that he is a man like ourselves.
D&C 130: 22 Father has a body of flesh and bones.
Moses 1: 16 thou art after the similitude of mine Only Begotten.
Moses 6: 9 In the image of his own body . . . created he them.
Abr. 3: 11 Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face.
Abr. 4: 27 Gods went down to organize man in their own image.

Gaz

Of course, nothing in your list sounds anything much more than metaphorical (it is especially strange to suggest that we are in the image of an invisible God). Of course, no theist would deny that God could appear in the form of a man (or women or dog) but the idea that he is actually an advanced primate complete with hair, useless nipples, meat grinding teeth and toenails, strikes most people as just weird (and anthropocentric).

[_truth dancer]

Hey Tarski...

Of course, nothing in your list sounds anything much more than metaphorical (it is especially strange to suggest that we are in the image of an invisible God). Of course, no theist would deny that God could appear in the form of a man (or women or dog) but the idea that he is actually an advanced primate complete with hair, useless nipples, meat grinding teeth and toenails, strikes most people as just weird (and anthropocentric).

This is the issue for me. It makes no sense whatsoever that God, the creator of the Universe looks like an advanced hairless primate. Further, the idea that God chose this particular moment in the whole 13.7 billion year evolution of the cosmos to stop the human form from developing, or chose this form as the idea, just completely doesn't work for me.

Our bodies are very specifically formed for our environment, why in the world would God need this type of form?

Could Joseph Smith be wrong? I'm thinking yes. ;-)

~dancer~

[_Gazelam]

That we are made in the image of God is to be taken literally. The body is part of our soul, and we are imperfect without it.

D&C 88:11-29

11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings;
12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—
13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.
14 Now, verily I say unto you, that through the redemption which is made for you is brought to pass the resurrection from the dead.
15 And the spirit and the body are the soul of man.
16 And the resurrection from the dead is the redemption of the soul.
17 And the redemption of the soul is through him that quickeneth all things, in whose bosom it is decreed that the poor and the meek of the earth shall inherit it.
18 Therefore, it must needs be sanctified from all unrighteousness, that it may be prepared for the celestial glory;
19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;
20 That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.
21 And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.
22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a ccelestial glory.
23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.
24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.
25 And again, verily I say unto you, the earth abideth the law of a celestial kingdom, for it filleth the measure of its creation, and transgresseth not the law—
26 Wherefore, it shall be sanctified; yea, notwithstanding it shall die, it shall be quickened again, and shall abide the power by which it is quickened, and the righteous shall inherit it.
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial bglory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

All living things shall receive an exaltation comparable to their obedience to the Laws they have received. As Christ, who is God, was ressurected, so shall we all be. A resurrection is not a metaphor, it is a reality.

[_Polygamy Porter]

Gaz,

To keep the playing field level, please do not reference the ramblings of Joseph Smith, Sidney, or Briggie. There is nothing to prove what they said, wrote down, revised, and published as divine scripture. known to Mormons as the D&C.

[_Gazelam]

If you scroll to the top of the screen you will notice big blue letters that describe the board you are on.

Gaz

[_MormonMendacity]

As the ruler of the Olympian gods, Zeus wields enormous power and absolute authority.

Additional references support this by a prophet named Homer who depicts him in the role of imperious leader, a grandiose father figure to a pantheon of bickering deities.

Do you reject the True God of Gods, Zeus?