Pahoran scores high points!

[_asbestosman]

Where were you in the 1970s and 1980s?

Nursery and primary respectively (more or less) on the Wasatch front (Provo to Ogden).

[_moksha]

Here, your fawning little acolytes and "lap-dogs" may mindlessly and unquestioningly accept your idiotic, artificial and purely ad hoc categories, invented for the sole purpose of polemical pidgeon-holing, but nobody with any intelligence does.

Regards,
Pahoran

Yep, it's the genuine Pahoran.

Paul O

Now that is humor at its best.

[_Runtu]

Where were you in the 1970s and 1980s?

Nursery and primary respectively (more or less) on the Wasatch front (Provo to Ogden).

Not meaning to derail this interesting thread, but Shades is right that these things about the earth, its spirit, its baptisms, and its destiny were routinely taught until not that long ago. The "I don't know that we teach that" moment is really indicative of this backing off from more traditional church teachings, so much so that people like asbestosman have no recollection of these things being taught.

Other things we were taught that no one seems to remember anymore:

Mary was a "virgin" because the being she had relations with was not a mortal man.
God was once a human who lived on a planet and became exalted, just as we have the potential to be.
Those who were BIC are being blessed for their valiant performance in the premortal existence.

And no, I'm not suggesting that these are "doctrines" of the church, but they were common teachings that seem to have fallen by the wayside. Whether that's evidence of continuing revelation or just mainstreaming is not my place to decide.

[_asbestosman]

I confess to having heard the idea about the Earth being baptized, but I probably heard that sometime in the 90's and likely from my own gospel studies. At the time I read it, I probably thought it was really deep and significant. Now a few years later I think the baptism of the Earth only makes sense metaphorically. Otherwise I have to wonder if the Earth was circumcized according to the old laws, had a savior die for it, can perform baptism for dead worlds, has a world spirit world, etc. The entire earth may have been covered with water, but calling it baptism seems to imply the earth needs saving ordinances which I strongly doubt. Do the other planets need to be baptzed too? What about the moons? What about the sun?

Besides, baptism is supposed to symbolize death, burial, and resurrection. How do you bury the earth when the earth's own material (water)? And let us not forget the Earth's atmosphere. I consider that a vital part of earth. Maybe God missed a spot. Guess we'll have to do it over.

[_Gazelam]

In the days of Noah the Lord sent a universal flood which completely immersed the whole earth and destroyed all flesh except that preserved on the ark. (Gen. 6; 7; 8; 9; Moses 7:38-45; 8; Ether 13:2.) "Noah was born to save seed of everything, when the earth was washed of its wickedness by the Flood." (teachings, p.12.) This Flood was the baptism of the earth; before it occurred the land was all in one place, a condition that will again prevail during the millennial era. (D&C 133:23-24.)

There is no question but what many of the so-called geological changes in the earth's surface, which according to geological theories took place over ages of time, in reality occured in a matter of a few short weeks incident to the universal deluge. (Man: His Origin and Destiny, pp. 414-436.)

Mormon Doctrine p. 289

Gaz

[_moksha]

Gaz, those seem like such heavy duty pronouncements for an allegorical story. Cute picture but that is not how such animals behave.

[_Pahoran]

Because he used to sign off as a Chapel Mormon? Am I mistaken about that?

I can sign off as a Hindu reformist, but that doesn't make me one. Likewise, Pahoran holds that only isolated, odd-man-out, misinformed Mormons ever believed that the Lamanites were the principal ancestors of the American Indians. I recall he also believes Noah's flood was localized--both quite clear indicators of an Internet Mormon.

I used to be an Internet Mormon, pretty much, even though I denied to Dr. Shades that I was or that such Mormons even existed. I don't know a single Internet Mormon who would admit to being one.

I took Shade's online test, and answered the questions honestly, and scored as a Chapel Mormon. I believe Pahoran did as well.

Thanks for reminding me of that. Yes, I did precisely that. Despite the heavily skewed bias in the test--IIRC, something like 80% of "Chapel Mormon" answers was the tipping point for "Internet Mormons"--I scored as a "Chapel Mormon."

Should the test results be ignored?

Of course they should. They don't confirm Shades's theory.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Paul Osborne]

Pahoran,

If you would, tell everyone hi for me on the FAIR board.

have a great day!

Paul O

[_Gazelam]

Was Peter telling an allegory when he bore testimony of Noah? (1 Pet 3:19-20)

How about Matthew? Mat. 24:37-39

Luke? 17:26-27

I could list many other prophets and accounts of the Flood throughout the scriptures. it was not an allegory. The Flood was a fact testified to by more than just Biblical religious groups. It was not regional, it was global.

If you choose to speak out against the prophets, that is your choice. I stand by them.

Gaz

[_moksha]

Was Peter telling an allegory when he bore testimony of Noah? (1 Pet 3:19-20)

How about Matthew? Mat. 24:37-39

Luke? 17:26-27

I could list many other prophets and accounts of the Flood throughout the scriptures. it was not an allegory. The Flood was a fact testified to by more than just Biblical religious groups. It was not regional, it was global.

If you choose to speak out against the prophets, that is your choice. I stand by them.

Gaz

I think the first mention of the Great Flood was in the Epic of Gilgamesh. It probably had to do with the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers overflowing their banks, unless it refers to the even older flooding of the Black Sea area. In any case, the story was handed down through oral tradition till it became the embellished allegory we have today. Peter bought into the allegory? Millions of people since then have as well.

Here is the Straight Dope: There is not enough water in the world for such a flood and there is no evidence it ever happened. As a matter of fact, the evidence points to it never happening in human history (last 200,000 years).