Do exmos feel guilty about their apostasy?

[_Runtu]

When I teach a class, I never, to my memory, try to make people feel guilty about being obedient. I may try to remind them of their responsibilities, but guilt trips? i don't view the gospel that way. To me a sin is a sin, we all commit them. The thing to do is simply move on and take it as a lesson learned. As an example of how to remind people to be obedient and fulfill their responsibilities I like to use D&C 84:54-62. I think that is an excellent example of a call to responsibility.

As for responding to fake scripture and poly-whatsit. I am not aware of fake scripture in the church, and I don't really know alot about the other. I am somewhat familiar and have read a few sites, but frankly I don't have enough information to form an opinion. I know Joseph was a prophet and that the church is true, that's all I can say on the matter.

I'm glad someone in the church is trying not to use guilt trips. Would that there were more of you.

TROJAN,

I would say your good feelings came from shirking the responsibilities that you had. That would simply stem from pleasure, not happiness or the spirit. Pleasure is a temporary and fleeting thing, but in the long run leaves you hollow.

Gaz

I spoke too soon. What is this but a guilt trip? You seem to assume that we did something wrong, or we wouldn't have left. But that's no guilt trip, is it?

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

GAZZY BOY

Simply refuses to see the truth.....but we know we have no guilt because we have no guilt

Guilt is a useless feeling and prevents anyone from seeing the truth.

I have no guilt I have done nothing wrong expect free myself from people who are continually trying to guilt me into something......whatever that something may be.......

Once Gazzy boy frees himself...he will be fine....but maybe not......but we will be fine those of us without guilt

[_Gazelam]

I don't know how else to explain it. I don't associate it with guilt. Either your living the Gospel or your not. The gospel of Jesus Christ is there to help you overcome decay and live after the creative pattern of Hapiness. If you don't want that, that's your choice. Did you feel guilty in high school when you ditched class and went to the mall, or hiking, or whatever? It was fun and pleasureable, but you didn't get done what realy needed to get done that day, There will come a time in the distant future when you will look back on this life like you look back on high school now. Did you ditch the lessons that needed to get learned? This life is extremely short, but its also extremely important. How you spend it is up to you, but the final exam is coming whether you want it to or not, and theres going to be a test to see what you've learned.

Gaz

[_Trojan Tapir]

I don't know how else to explain it. I don't associate it with guilt. Either your living the Gospel or your not. The gospel of Jesus Christ is there to help you overcome decay and live after the creative pattern of Hapiness. If you don't want that, that's your choice. Did you feel guilty in high school when you ditched class and went to the mall, or hiking, or whatever? It was fun and pleasureable, but you didn't get done what realy needed to get done that day, There will come a time in the distant future when you will look back on this life like you look back on high school now. Did you ditch the lessons that needed to get learned? This life is extremely short, but its also extremely important. How you spend it is up to you, but the final exam is coming whether you want it to or not, and theres going to be a test to see what you've learned.

Gaz

So you aren't going to answer a single one of my questions? Can I assume then that your answer to each question is "I don't know"?

[_msnobody]

Gaz, I think nearly every exmo here would tell you that they eventually knew deep down that no matter how hard they tried, Mo god was insatiable.

[_desert_vulture]

Yes, I heard this idea periodically on FAIR! It makes no sense to me. If someone knew the church was true why would they pretend to not believe? Or why would they even want to not participate? I don't get this line of reasoning at all.
~dancer~

It's called denial. A TBM's comfort level is disrupted by the cognitive dissonance caused when a happy, rational ex-mormon crosses their path. Somehow they have to reconcile this anomoly, within the framework of Mormon dogmatism. Because they have been taught (mostly by example) that an ex-mormon is worse than a murderer or an adulterer, and should be shunned like the plague, they believe it is not possible for an ex-mormon to be happy. Therefore, they create an imaginary framework that casts the disbeliever in the role of a sinner, who knows the truth, but would rather sin than change his/her evil ways. Because this framework requires all ex-mormons to be sinners, on some level, they can easily justify passing judgment on ex-mormons. Since being an ex-mormon is inherently "wrong" to them, and ex-mormons are all "sinners" to them, then of course the ex-mormon MUST know deep down inside that the gospel is true and ex-mos are only yielding to their sinful, carnal ways. To admit that there is a possibility that an ex-mormon has discovered that the church is not what it claims, is not possible for them. This possibility doesn't exist, just as wickedness being happiness doesn't exist for them. Because wickedness never was happiness, all ex-mormons must inherently be sad, and only FAKING happiness, they presume. Otherwise, if an ex-mormon could actually BE happy, their entire framework may come crashing down. The TBM who believes this also believes that without the gospel of Joseph Smith, there can be no happiness. That is the logical conundrum those folks have created for themselves. So, because they "know" that happiness only comes from obeying Joseph Smith's commandments, an ex-mormon "obviously" cannot be happy, and any happiness exuding forth from an ex-mormon is obviously only a temporary short-lived enjoyment of sin. It could never be the "true" happiness one receives from living the gospel. And any complaining or critism directed at the church is "obviously" an ex-mormons true unhappiness being manifest because the ex-mormon "knows" how they should be living their life, but they are caught up in sin, and "past-feeling" so there is no recognition of the error of their ways.

[_Runtu]

It's called denial. A TBM's comfort level is disrupted by the cognitive dissonance caused when a happy, rational ex-mormon crosses their path. Somehow they have to reconcile this anomoly, within the framework of Mormon dogmatism. Because they have been taught (mostly by example) that an ex-mormon is worse than a murderer or an adulterer, and should be shunned like the plague, they believe it is not possible for an ex-mormon to be happy. Therefore, they create an imaginary framework that casts the disbeliever in the role of a sinner, who knows the truth, but would rather sin than change his/her evil ways. Because this framework requires all ex-mormons to be sinners, on some level, they can easily justify passing judgment on ex-mormons. Since being an ex-mormon is inherently "wrong" to them, and ex-mormons are all "sinners" to them, then of course the ex-mormon MUST know deep down inside that the gospel is true and ex-mos are only yielding to their sinful, carnal ways. To admit that there is a possibility that an ex-mormon has discovered that the church is not what it claims, is not possible for them. This possibility doesn't exist, just as wickedness being happiness doesn't exist for them. Because wickedness never was happiness, all ex-mormons must inherently be sad, and only FAKING happiness, they presume. Otherwise, if an ex-mormon could actually BE happy, their entire framework may come crashing down. The TBM who believes this also believes that without the gospel of Joseph Smith, there can be no happiness. That is the logical conundrum those folks have created for themselves. So, because they "know" that happiness only comes from obeying Joseph Smith's commandments, an ex-mormon "obviously" cannot be happy, and any happiness exuding forth from an ex-mormon is obviously only a temporary short-lived enjoyment of sin. It could never be the "true" happiness one receives from living the gospel. And any complaining or critism directed at the church is "obviously" an ex-mormons true unhappiness being manifest because the ex-mormon "knows" how they should be living their life, but they are caught up in sin, and "past-feeling" so there is no recognition of the error of their ways.

Very well said, DV. Tell me again, why are you still in the church? ;-)

[_MormonMendacity]

...just as wickedness being happiness doesn't exist for them. Because wickedness never was happiness, all ex-mormons must inherently be sad, and only FAKING happiness, they presume. Otherwise, if an ex-mormon could actually BE happy, their entire framework may come crashing down.

It sounds very arrogant when someone claims that people in other religions or holding other philosophies cannot be happy.

It makes you wonder if they can even define the word.

[_desert_vulture]

It's called denial. A TBM's comfort level is disrupted by the cognitive dissonance caused when a happy, rational ex-mormon crosses their path. Somehow they have to reconcile this anomoly, within the framework of Mormon dogmatism. Because they have been taught (mostly by example) that an ex-mormon is worse than a murderer or an adulterer, and should be shunned like the plague, they believe it is not possible for an ex-mormon to be happy. Therefore, they create an imaginary framework that casts the disbeliever in the role of a sinner, who knows the truth, but would rather sin than change his/her evil ways. Because this framework requires all ex-mormons to be sinners, on some level, they can easily justify passing judgment on ex-mormons. Since being an ex-mormon is inherently "wrong" to them, and ex-mormons are all "sinners" to them, then of course the ex-mormon MUST know deep down inside that the gospel is true and ex-mos are only yielding to their sinful, carnal ways. To admit that there is a possibility that an ex-mormon has discovered that the church is not what it claims, is not possible for them. This possibility doesn't exist, just as wickedness being happiness doesn't exist for them. Because wickedness never was happiness, all ex-mormons must inherently be sad, and only FAKING happiness, they presume. Otherwise, if an ex-mormon could actually BE happy, their entire framework may come crashing down. The TBM who believes this also believes that without the gospel of Joseph Smith, there can be no happiness. That is the logical conundrum those folks have created for themselves. So, because they "know" that happiness only comes from obeying Joseph Smith's commandments, an ex-mormon "obviously" cannot be happy, and any happiness exuding forth from an ex-mormon is obviously only a temporary short-lived enjoyment of sin. It could never be the "true" happiness one receives from living the gospel. And any complaining or critism directed at the church is "obviously" an ex-mormons true unhappiness being manifest because the ex-mormon "knows" how they should be living their life, but they are caught up in sin, and "past-feeling" so there is no recognition of the error of their ways.

Very well said, DV. Tell me again, why are you still in the church? ;-)

It's complicated, but mostly a combination of fear, indifference, confusion, inertia, and loyalty.

[_Jason Bourne]

It's called denial. A TBM's comfort level is disrupted by the cognitive dissonance caused when a happy, rational ex-mormon crosses their path. Somehow they have to reconcile this anomoly, within the framework of Mormon dogmatism. Because they have been taught (mostly by example) that an ex-mormon is worse than a murderer or an adulterer, and should be shunned like the plague, they believe it is not possible for an ex-mormon to be happy.

There is much that is correct in your post. However, there is a disconnection when a TBM runs into someone who abandons the Church. Discomfort and awkwardness can appear when an exmo and TBM meet or greet. For many, if not most this it the case. However, the comments above the church teaching the shunning and that an exmo is worse then a murderer or adulterer is nonesense. I have never heard such things taught. Can you document this please?

Jason