Calmoriah and "the small beginnings of apostasy"

[_Mrs Robbins]

That is really well said, Truth Dancer. I think we have to be sensitive to ALL the walks different people have taken. We can't know what it is like, exactly, be we can be sensitive to it.

[_Mister Scratch]

Whether one agrees with Cal or Juliann, or Claudia, at least they are opening the door to discussion. It will take the women within the church to help and support the young women. It will take their courage and voice to make a difference and to fulfill the needs of the next generation.

I'm disheartened when I hear men thwart the efforts and stifle the voice of women who are trying to help; judging them as unrighteous because they see a need and want to help.
~dancer~

Well put, TD, and I think you touch upon a crucial point, which is the fact that discussion and language itself are stifled in this regard. GBH's admonitions against praying to Heavenly Mother are another facet of this attempt to control language.

[_truth dancer]

Yes Scratch,

As long as the righteous, sincere, loving, believing women of the church are criticized and condemned for struggling, suffering, and openly sharing their concerns and heartfelt sorrows, there will be no discussion. As long as women are silenced for expressing their needs and hopes there will be no discussion.

We can know what men are concerned about women, by observing their willingness to listen, really listen to women without judgment but with an honest desire and willingness to show compassion and care.

~dancer~

[_Rollo Tomasi]

But what does this have to do with FAIR? Many will recall that the FAIR Conference of 2006 featured a "feminist" presentation from one Claudia Bushman, who is the wife of noted Mormon historian and author Richard Bushman, author of Rough Stone Rolling. It turns out that the talk given by Sis. Bushman struck a chord with many of the usual female suspects on FAIR, notably Calmoriah.

....

This is a fantastic thread! I think there are more TBM women out there with Calmoriah-like feelings on this topic than we realize. I realize the Brethren repeat over and over that LDS women are not "2nd-class citizens" in the Church, but that's exactly how many women (and girls) feel. This is a ticking timebomb, in my opinion.

[_Gazelam]

A commandment not to pray to a mother Godess is not something new to our dispensation.

Biblical references have been taken to indicate that a goddess Asherah was worshipped in Israel and Judah, as the Queen of Heaven whose worship Jeremiah so vehemently opposed:

"Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."
—Jeremiah 7:17–18
"... to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem ..."
—Jeremiah 44:17
The Hebrews baked small cakes for her festival.

It was wrong then, and it is wrong now.

Christ himself is at the head of the church. It is his priesthood, the priesthood " after the order of the Son of God" (D&C 84:17-20) Women are exalted in the church, and are respected and cared for by the priesthood. I say again, if there is a problem it is based solely on the women not studying or praying and who feed a misconstrued view that they need to repent of.

Gaz

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

But what does this have to do with FAIR? Many will recall that the FAIR Conference of 2006 featured a "feminist" presentation from one Claudia Bushman, who is the wife of noted Mormon historian and author Richard Bushman, author of Rough Stone Rolling. It turns out that the talk given by Sis. Bushman struck a chord with many of the usual female suspects on FAIR, notably Calmoriah.

....

This is a fantastic thread! I think there are more TBM women out there with Calmoriah-like feelings on this topic than we realize. I realize the Brethren repeat over and over that LDS women are not "2nd-class citizens" in the Church, but that's exactly how many women (and girls) feel. This is a ticking timebomb, in my opinion.

Rollo you are so close to the TRUTH.....Thank You

I hope to be part of the explosion when the bomb goes off......there are too many men that need too held accountable

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Yes Scratch,

As long as the righteous, sincere, loving, believing women of the church are criticized and condemned for struggling, suffering, and openly sharing their concerns and heartfelt sorrows, there will be no discussion. As long as women are silenced for expressing their needs and hopes there will be no discussion.

We can know what men are concerned about women, by observing their willingness to listen, really listen to women without judgment but with an honest desire and willingness to show compassion and care.

~dancer~

I hope that we can someway allow these women to find thier voice

I wish GAZZY boy would go away

[_Dr. Shades]

I wish GAZZY boy would go away

Just a friendly reminder, but Gazelam is just as welcome here as anyone else.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Yes you are right I will ignore him

Sorry

[_Jason Bourne]

Why in the World should Women Care about holding the Stupid Priesthood......

Why in the world would I want to control anyone like Priesthooders do?????

Of course Mormon women will say they have no interest.....THEY MUST........SHUT UP and SING....

We want shared power.....which many times in many Mormon families there is no such thing as shared power

And you Jason know that and do not and I mean do not give that me crap that women are powerful because they can bring babies into the world......That Is a Bunch of CRAP and you know it....

It takes two or three or more to bring children in the WORLD and love and protect them from the POWER that will ultimately destroy them

I would be quite happy to see women hold the LDS priesthood and would rejoice in it as much as I did when the blacks were able to have LDS priesthood.

Jason